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In GNS Model Discussion

11/9/2002 Kester Pelagius: Role-Playing and the GNS Theory (raw article, lengthy)
[color=blue]Copyright © 2002 C. Demetrius Morgan[/color] [color=darkblue]What follows below is intended as a encyclopedic reference entry on the subject of "Role-Playing and the GNS Theory". Alas, as there are no…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Kester Pelagius, MK Snyder, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards, Seth L. Blumberg, Walt Freitag.

11/8/2002 MK Snyder: GNS and Threefold comparison (specific)
How does the GNS model differ from this application of the Threefold model? It appears to me to be identical: *Applies to play process, not game and not gamer *Applies…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: MK Snyder, Mike Holmes, Le Joueur, greyorm, talysman, Ron Edwards.

11/7/2002 Ron Edwards: Humor and GNS
Hi MK, I think introducing the issue of humor is causing problems of its own. I have experienced funny stuff in all three modes of play without stretching or adding…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards, Seth L. Blumberg, Mike Holmes, contracycle, MK Snyder, Walt Freitag, talysman, greyorm, M. J. Young.

11/8/2002 Ron Edwards: About terminology
Hello, This post is directed mainly to Ralph and to MK Snyder, who have recently voiced an uncompromising criticism over the terms I've adopted or introduced. The argument, if I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards, Paganini, Alan, Le Joueur, Valamir, J B Bell, Gordon C. Landis, Christoffer Lernö, Kester Pelagius, Mike Holmes, MK Snyder, M. J. Young, greyorm, contracycle, Irmo, JMendes, Cassidy, Jonathan Walton.

11/8/2002 Tony Irwin: Narrativist vs Director Stance
Hey folks, have I got this right? That you can have a narrativist game where the players have no director stance at all? I suppose that the premise would automatically…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Tony Irwin, Ron Edwards, Paganini.

11/7/2002 Paka: Death & GNS
okay, one moment, let me get this straight in my head: In Gamist terms the game is about winning and death would probably mean losing. In Simulationist terms the game…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Paka, Tim Denee, Valamir, Ron Edwards.

11/6/2002 JMendes: Is S out of balance with G/N?
Hey, :) In my previous thread about rewards, I asked how to reward players in different GNS flavors. Also, in this thread about actor and author stance, Cassidy had some…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: JMendes, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Jared A. Sorensen, MK Snyder, RobMuadib, Emily Care, contracycle, M. J. Young, talysman.

11/5/2002 MK Snyder: Problems with term "premise"
I am continuing the discussion started in this thread First off, I'm going to say that I do not care for the use of the term "premise" as…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: MK Snyder, Ron Edwards, Valamir.

11/5/2002 Sylus Thane: Can a game have all 3 G/N/S Revisited
I was tooling around and came upon this thread and kinda noticed that the original question had kinda derailed. So here it is again and my take on it. Can…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Sylus Thane, Ron Edwards, Gordon C. Landis, talysman, Cassidy, Mike Holmes.

11/5/2002 Jake Norwood: Getting in touch with our inner gamist
Okay, gamism--probably due to the preferences of many Forgites--has the least positive rap around here. But, let's face it...we all have an inner gamist...something within us that wants to win.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jake Norwood, Alan, Matt, Marco, Valamir, RobMuadib, Seth L. Blumberg, Le Joueur, Bankuei, Ron Edwards, Tim C Koppang, Clinton R. Nixon, Andrew Martin, MK Snyder, Rich Forest, C. Edwards.

11/4/2002 MK Snyder: GNS and its origins from the Threefold Model
As a newbie, I found this discussion of The Threefold Theory very useful, especially with regard tot he symmetry problem. Am I correct in assuming that the GNS model derives…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: MK Snyder, M. J. Young, Valamir, Ron Edwards.

11/3/2002 Cassidy: Actor and Author Stance
[b]Taken from chapter 3 of GNS Theory[/b] [quote]In Actor stance, a person determines a character’s decisions and actions using only knowledge and perceptions that the character would have. In Author…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Cassidy, Alan, Valamir, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, joe_llama, Andrew Martin, Le Joueur, M. J. Young.

11/1/2002 Peregrine: The GNS Paradigm - a polite refute
Hi all This may be a very bad idea, and I've been warned off by others who've done similar, but: I have significant issues with the GNS paradigm. Let me…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Peregrine, Christoffer Lernö, Matt, Valamir, Le Joueur, Mike Holmes, Bankuei, damion, Ron Edwards, Kester Pelagius, greyorm, Jack Spencer Jr.

11/1/2002 JMendes: GNS and player rewards
Hi, all, :) Appols if this has been asked and answered (in which case check out this thread replies are appreciated). Anyway, how does one reward players in the various…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: JMendes, M. J. Young, Cassidy, MK Snyder.

11/1/2002 b_bankhead: On loosing faith in simulation
When I started out in rpgs so many years ago I was a died in the wool simulationist. When my friends decided to write our own rpg we actually did…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: b_bankhead, Jeremy Cole, JMendes, Ron Edwards, Andrew Martin, Peter Nordstrand, M. J. Young, contracycle, Le Joueur, Marco, Mike Holmes, RobMuadib, MK Snyder, Alan, Valamir.

10/31/2002 Cassidy: FitM extremes
I'm a newbie to this forum and have been interested in Narrativist styles of play for quite some time ever since I stumbed on "the Window RPG" one dark night.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Cassidy, Bankuei, Shreyas Sampat, Mike Holmes, Paganini, Andrew Martin, Ron Edwards, M. J. Young.

10/29/2002 MK Snyder: Incoherence and sales II
Some thoughts: *People buy games for different reasons than they play them. They are attracted by the genre, they like the text on the cover/box, they like the discussion generated…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: MK Snyder, Ron Edwards, Bankuei, Mike Holmes, Christopher Kubasik, Jeremy Cole, Andrew Martin, Marco, xiombarg, Le Joueur, M. J. Young, Valamir.

10/29/2002 GB Steve: Something for the Narrative pot
I've been reading the excellent Cambridge Intorduction to Narrative by H. Porter Abbott. It's pretty much an undergraduate text on the subject and covers most of the main points whilst…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: GB Steve, Valamir, Mike Holmes, Gordon C. Landis, MK Snyder, Jack Spencer Jr, Don Lag.

10/28/2002 jrients: Champs 3 vs Champs 4
From Ron's "GNS and other matters" article Champions, through its 3rd edition, exemplified a mix of Gamist and Narrativist & "driftable" design, but with its 4th edition in the very…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jrients, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Christoffer Lernö.

10/24/2002 Christoffer Lernö: GAH I'm tired of being forbidden to use "Story"
I know I know, it's not well defined. But then please please give me a word to describe the history of the in-play events during a session of play -…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Christoffer Lernö, Marco, Le Joueur, Matt, Mike Holmes, Tim C Koppang.

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Subsequent Topics
In GNS Model Discussion

11/9/2002 Cassidy: Developed Premise and Exploration
[quote="Ron Edwards, from GNS Chapter 5, ROLE-PLAYING DESIGN AND COHERENCE"]Facilitating a metagame concern (a developed Premise) differs greatly from Exploring a listed element as a priority. To address a Premise,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Cassidy, Ron Edwards, MK Snyder, Paganini.

11/10/2002 RobMuadib: Are The Sub-Priorities of Simulationism Incompatible?
Hi all I was reading the Is S out of balance with G/N thread started by J Mendes and it gave rise to a thought, specifically with regards to the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: RobMuadib, Ron Edwards.

11/12/2002 MK Snyder: Examples of GNS in application w/respect to play
As this is a forum for game designers, there are many threads applying GNS to game design. I think it's not unreasonable to note that this creates some confusion, because…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: MK Snyder, Ron Edwards, Bob McNamee, Mike Holmes, M. J. Young.

11/13/2002 Kester Pelagius: "RPG/GNS Encyclopedia Draft 4a"
This is a continuation of a discussion started here. Feedback is being actively sought to help develop this entry. Any and all questions are welcome, as are suggestions for sub-entries,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Kester Pelagius, Seth L. Blumberg, Ron Edwards.

11/16/2002 Kester Pelagius: What would interest you the most?
Greetings All, If you were to read a article or essay about role-playing games what would interest you the most? What sort of information would you most definitely want to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Kester Pelagius.

11/18/2002 M. J. Young: Concentration: an Example
Over in Game Theory there's a thread about Illusionism and GNS; someone brought up Concentration as an example, and it came back to me as something potentially enlightening. Let…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: M. J. Young.

11/19/2002 Steve Dustin: Converting GNS --> Exploration Model
Crapzilla. Just when I found I've got something worthwhile to say, Ron closes the terminology thread. Oh well, lets hope its not too much of a faux paus to post…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Steve Dustin, Ron Edwards, Emily Care.

11/19/2002 Ron Edwards: Vanilla and Pervy [thread #4 of the Five]
Hello, This thread re-examines the terms Vanilla and Pervy, which have been kind of loosely used at the Forge so far, much like "Illusionism" until recently. Here's where I'm laying…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards, lumpley, Valamir, Matt Snyder, Alan, Walt Freitag, Mike Holmes, C. Edwards, talysman, Seth L. Blumberg, Mark D. Eddy, J B Bell, Steve Dustin, Stuart DJ Purdie, M. J. Young, GreatWolf.

11/19/2002 lumpley: Pervy in My Head
This would just be clutter in Ron's thread. The way I think of pervy: high Exploration of System would be kinky. A pervy gamer would a. only like kinky games…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: lumpley, Ron Edwards, jrs, M. J. Young, Bob McNamee, RobMuadib.

11/22/2002 szilard: Narrativism and Premise: a question or two
Okay... I'm still new here. I've read the GNS essay(s) and been reading through some posts. I am still not sure I understand the model. I understand that Narrative games…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: szilard, C. Edwards, jburneko, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes.

11/22/2002 Mike Holmes: Combat systems [Pervy and Vanilla]
Something just occured to me. Combat systems are Pervy! Mike
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mike Holmes, Mark D. Eddy, M. J. Young, Ron Edwards, JMendes.

11/24/2002 MK Snyder: Cannot stand cutesipoo terms like "vanilla" and &q
Just for the record. Applying them to *combat systems* is a pretty weird thing to do. The whole "mixing sex with violence" vocabulary does not sit well with me, not…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: MK Snyder, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, J B Bell, Manu, Le Joueur, Emily Care, M. J. Young, Ian Charvill, xiombarg.

11/24/2002 hyphz: TROS, Narrativism and Illusionism
To be honest I had absolutely no idea where to post this, but since I'm mentioning '-isms' I suppose I'll try here first. Here's my question. I'm led to understand…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: hyphz, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Jake Norwood.

11/29/2002 lumpley: Pervy Sim, Points of Contact, Accessibility: an example game
Hey. I used to play in this game with Sarah Kahn and them, and holy cow were they pervs. The philosophy: 1. No game mechanics can be as good a…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: lumpley, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes.

12/8/2002 James V. West: NOMA and GNS
This may be the first time I've posted in the GNS forum. I generally don't get involved in theory discussions, but this question kept bugging me all week (and if…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: James V. West, Jack Spencer Jr, Ron Edwards, talysman.

12/18/2002 bluegargantua: The Box -- an idea for clarifying terminology
Hi, So reading through the GNS articles and a number of threads here in this forum, I've come to the following conclusion: The terminology was rather vague to begin with.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: bluegargantua, Emily Care, quozl, Bankuei, Seth L. Blumberg, talysman, M. J. Young, Ron Edwards.

12/18/2002 Jeffrey Miller: Player or Character driven - is there a difference?
Caution - slight GNS content follows, but feel free to expand. In a seperate thread, Alan Barclay posted: Player-driven. ( I believe there's no difference, but I don't want to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jeffrey Miller, Andrew Martin, Ron Edwards, cruciel, Alan, M. J. Young, Jack Spencer Jr, Gordon C. Landis, Clinton R. Nixon, Matt Wilson.

12/21/2002 M. J. Young: Blended Mechanics?
[quote="This is part of what Ron Edwards"]I disagree with you. As I have more-or-less interpreted the terms from Everway, they go like this: 1) Fortune = use of a randomizing…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: M. J. Young, Valamir, Jack Spencer Jr, Ron Edwards, GreatWolf, Seth L. Blumberg, Andrew Martin, Le Joueur, bluegargantua.

12/30/2002 lumpley: Egri & the "Lumpley Principle"
I just finished the Art of Dramatic Writing and Egri says: you get a story when you take a strong, driven, dynamic character at a turning point, add balanced opposition,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: lumpley, Drew Stevens, Jack Spencer Jr, J B Bell, Ron Edwards, Emily Care, Paganini, bluegargantua, Steve Dustin, Alan, Christopher Kubasik, M. J. Young.

1/4/2003 Henry Fitch: Nobilis - really diceless?
Okay, this is a DFK question instead of a GNS one. Is that okay? Hope so. Anyway, I'm thinking that Nobilis isn't a fully diceless (i.e. fortuneless) system. When a…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Henry Fitch, DaR, Andrew Martin, Ron Edwards.

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