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In GNS Model Discussion

9/23/2003 John Kim: Front-loaded relationship-driven Nar/Sim overlap
OK, the subject here is Ben Lehman's description of a common style of his games, detailed more in this thread. The key point about this style is that…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, Mike Holmes, AnyaTheBlue, Ron Edwards, jdagna, Ben Lehman, Gordon C. Landis, Marco, GreatWolf, Lxndr, M. J. Young.

9/22/2003 Ben Lehman: relationship maps as S technique
For clarification, I see most of my games as S / N overlapping -- strong exploration of setting and character and no-collusion actor stance play with strong setting based premise…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ben Lehman, hanschristianandersen, Gordon C. Landis, jdagna, M. J. Young, John Kim, Ron Edwards.

9/22/2003 Ben Lehman: Setting Design Technique: N or S
So, as I further try to get a handle on these terms, I'm going to ask about the way that I tend to design settings for RPGs. I will note…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ben Lehman, Ron Edwards.

9/22/2003 Wormwood: "Realism" valued in both G and S?
This is an idea that stems from technical play analysis I've been doing. The common assumptions I've encountered indicate that the desire for the game to match real world features…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Wormwood, Ron Edwards.

9/22/2003 Ian O'Rourke: Underworld and GNS
I think Underworld is the first movie I've seen that models the whole Relationship Map, Kicker, etc set-up. I'd see it for that alone if your interested. The movie starts…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ian O'Rourke, Ben Lehman, Ron Edwards, John Kim, pete_darby.

9/19/2003 Ian O'Rourke: GNS and NWN
Okay, I've put this in Actual Play, because it was sort of kicked off by Actual Play issues. I will also say now, I apply NO value judegements in this…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ian O'Rourke, Andrew Norris, Ron Edwards, Marco, TheShireReeve, contracycle.

9/11/2003 MonkeyWrench: Can someone explain some things
I've recently decided to step out of the Riddle of Steel forum and explore the rest of the site and I'm afraid I need some terms explained to me so…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: MonkeyWrench, MachMoth, ethan_greer, WDFlores, Ron Edwards.

9/3/2003 Ben Lehman: [split] Imbedded in Sim play is...
split from http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=7819 I plan to spend a fair amount of time talking about how play/design in this category is extremely vulnerable to Narrativist powergaming (which is basically…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ben Lehman, WDFlores, gentrification, contracycle, Ron Edwards, Tony Irwin, Jack Spencer Jr, Wormwood.

9/2/2003 Ron Edwards: Rough categories of Narrativist play/design
Hello, I've been discussing some Narrativism stuff with some people, and here's a little snippet, as a preview to the Narrativism essay. I most recently presented these ideas to Chris…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards, Green, Paul Czege, joshua neff, HMT, Mike Holmes, Valamir, Walt Freitag, cruciel, Bankuei, Matt Snyder, John Kim, Marco.

9/2/2003 Bankuei: The Return of Meaningful Decision
Hi guys, I've been reading my new copy of HQ, and really, really thinking about mythology, and with it, our good friend Meaningful Decision. I'm sure that most of this…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Bankuei, Ron Edwards, WDFlores.

8/28/2003 pete_darby: (mis?) Applying GNS to other game media...
A UK computer magazine (Edge) has published a series of specials looking at the state of the various computer / console platforms. In the PC edition, there's an article on…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: pete_darby, contracycle, Wormwood, John Kim, Mike Holmes, WDFlores.

8/28/2003 M. J. Young: GNS Analysis--Post Play
[quote="Ron Edwards"]M.J., I'm having a hard time seeing how your insight is a new thing. I mean, I'm glad you wrote it, and it makes perfect sense, and it's all…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: M. J. Young, Ron Edwards, cruciel.

8/25/2003 Wormwood: In Search of an Uncertainty Principle
A decision does not possess a creative agenda. Rather the consequences of a decision evidence a dynamic which retro-actively places the decision within a creative agenda. This dynamic structure is…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Wormwood, Valamir, Mike Holmes, Marco, Ron Edwards, M. J. Young.

8/17/2003 Sir Thomas: Gamism and Director Stance
Just wondering, can Gamism and Director Stance be successfully combined? I think Rune might be like this, but from my readings on these forums, it seems that the Director stance…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Sir Thomas, jdagna, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards.

8/16/2003 bcook1971: Simulationism does exist
I stumbled onto this site through a chain of events: a player in my AD&D 1st ed. group brought a THAC0 wheel he'd downloaded from RPG United to a game…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: bcook1971, Mad-Eye Moody, M. J. Young, Ron Edwards, simon_hibbs.

8/14/2003 jeffd: Practical Examples of GNS
I'm a newbie here, so forgive me if I'm asking something utterly foolish... I've read through most of the articles posted on GNS and I've skimmed the forum some. GNS…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jeffd, jdagna, Eric J., Mike Holmes, Marco, Alan, Walt Freitag.

8/8/2003 Mark Johnson: Designing Games as Substitutionary for Play?
[quote="In [i][a href="http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=7171"]Reading Games as Substitutionary for Play?[/a][/i] M.J. Young"] Some time back there was a discussion about the degree to which reading the rules of a game was part…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mark Johnson, Walt Freitag, Alan, Ron Edwards, Jack Aidley, pete_darby.

8/7/2003 Ron Edwards: "Playing my character" Part 2
In the "Playing my character" thread, John wrote, I would be curious about Ron's example of the journalist he played in Terry Gant's Call of Cthulhu game. How would you…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Gordon C. Landis, John Kim, Walt Freitag, cruciel.

8/5/2003 Ron Edwards: "Playing my character"
Hello, This thread presents my response to some points raised in the Shadows in the Fog playtest discussion in Actual Play. John, this is me, rolling my eyes. You are…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Walt Freitag, Marco, John Kim, cruciel, M. J. Young, A.Neill.

8/3/2003 DensityMan: GNS - what is it? (split)
[quote]Talk to someone who participates in role-playing, and focus on the precise and actual acts of role-playing themselves. Ask them, "Why do you role-play?" The most common answer is, "To…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: DensityMan, Ron Edwards.

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Subsequent Topics
In GNS Model Discussion

9/24/2003 Ben Lehman: Struggle in RPGs
This is entirely based on this thread: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=8092 So I was thinking about the "Vanilla Simulationists" mentioned in this thread with regard to my own experiences with highly immersionist play…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ben Lehman, Matt Wilson, Ron Edwards, pete_darby, AnyaTheBlue, contracycle, Ian Charvill, Landon Darkwood.

9/25/2003 M. J. Young: Clarifying Simulationism
I'm trying to catch up with all the posts over on the Front-loaded relationship-driven Nar/Sim overlap thread, and I'm getting boggled with all the "this is what sim means…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: M. J. Young, AnyaTheBlue, jdagna, John Kim, pete_darby, Lxndr, Ron Edwards, Valamir, Ian Charvill, Walt Freitag, Marco, Jonathan Walton, Wormwood, ethan_greer, Ben Lehman, Gordon C. Landis.

9/25/2003 xiombarg: hidden information and Narrativism
In various threads regarding Unsung, particularly during play, Mike points to the idea some of the players have had that information hiding is okay (while others shared all information, even…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: xiombarg, Ron Edwards, Matt Snyder, Mike Holmes.

9/26/2003 AnyaTheBlue: Illusionism: Nothing up my sleeve
Hi, all! In my quest to work out how GNS is put together, I'm finding myself trying to figure out where I fit. After reading the Sim article, I thought…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: AnyaTheBlue, Marco, M. J. Young.

9/26/2003 Jonathan Walton: Defining Roleplaying (According to GNS)
With Ron's recent statements in the Clarifying Simulationism thread, I actually think we're damn close to defining roleplaying, at least according to GNS and the general theory precepts that most…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jonathan Walton, Valamir, Ron Edwards, AnyaTheBlue, Gordon C. Landis, pete_darby, M. J. Young, lumpley.

9/29/2003 Gordon C. Landis: Things NOT GNS (including g, n, and s)
This seemed best as a new post, though it is directly spawned by Clarifying Simulationism and similiar recent threads. Let me start with three fairly simple statements that…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis, pete_darby, Ian Charvill, Wormwood, Ron Edwards, AnyaTheBlue, jdagna, M. J. Young, Walt Freitag, Valamir, Mike Holmes.

9/29/2003 AnyaTheBlue: Possible summary of GNS
Hi, All! A number of recent threads (and my own noodling) over the GNS theory as a whole have lead me to write a description of what I think the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: AnyaTheBlue, Ron Edwards, jdagna.

9/29/2003 deadpanbob: Technique(s) as Discriminating Characteristics of GNS
In this thread... Currency, IIEE, character creation, resolution (DFK), reward systems, and the comparatively fleeting Stances, are all "spheres" of Techniques. Can we talk about a given profile,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: deadpanbob, AnyaTheBlue, M. J. Young, John Kim, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards.

9/30/2003 Wormwood: Hybridization Question
I'm currently looking for the theoretical underpinnings of the statement that in a GNS hybrid has a primary and some number of secondary modes. I've viewed this statement as a…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Wormwood, Gordon C. Landis, M. J. Young, jdagna, AnyaTheBlue, Mike Holmes, deadpanbob, Marco.

10/9/2003 Palaskar: Minimum number of GNS roles?
After reading "Applied Theory" by M.J. Young, I got inspired. It seems to me, mechanically, there are a minimum of five GNS roles with regard to system. Broken down, they…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Palaskar, Ron Edwards, M. J. Young.

10/10/2003 Harlequin: A novel thought on Nar currency
[i](Hey, all. It's been a while - RL is what it is. Missed this place, though.)[/i] Okay. A neat thought just came to me, and I wanted to share it…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Harlequin, gobi, Ron Edwards, Paul Czege, Mike Holmes, Jack Spencer Jr.

10/10/2003 LordSmerf: Gamist Goodness
Recently i've been wanting to play a Gamist game. Something that's all about powering up your character and very Players vs. DM oriented. I know that some of you have…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: LordSmerf, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards, C. Edwards, rafial, hix, M. J. Young.

10/18/2003 Palaskar: Accomodating GNS drift: Good or bad?
My post on GNS roles got me thinking about modifying my own game. The sections would look something like this, broken down by role: (I have deliberately excluded Guide, as…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Palaskar, Mike Holmes.

10/18/2003 RaconteurX: Play Contract "checklist"?
The group with which I have been playing the past year or so is a mixed bag of player types, more or less consisting of two Storytellers, a Method Actor,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: RaconteurX, gobi, Ron Edwards, Harlequin, The GM, Anthony I, Walt Freitag, A.Neill, Matt Snyder, Mike Holmes, M. J. Young, Mark Johnson, Adam Dray, xiombarg, John Kim.

10/18/2003 Walt Freitag: Origin of the phrase "Step On Up"
Is there some intrinsic meaning to the phrase "Step On Up" that the GNS usage with regard to Gamism builds on? I understand what the term is defined it to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Walt Freitag, Ron Edwards, Jeff Klein, Jack Spencer Jr.

10/24/2003 The GM: GNS and Social Contract (split)
Just wanted to add some points of clarification. As Mike says (and a lot of other people for that matter,) social issues and ground rules for acceptable social behavior is…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: The GM, Adam Dray, Ron Edwards, Tim Alexander, Matt Snyder, Mike Holmes, M. J. Young, jdagna, Marco, Gordon C. Landis.

10/25/2003 Silmenume: Why we (I?) roleplay - especially in the Simulationist mode.
Having read through the thread Clarifying Simulationism, an idea opened up to me about mid way through that ironically was touched upon by the final post. So even…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Ian Charvill, Ron Edwards, M. J. Young, Mike Holmes, lumpley.

10/27/2003 Calithena: Computers, Gamist Design, and the Future of TRPGing
One thing that reguarly pushes my interest in gaming towards the narrativist and world-building (I guess this is simulationist, but so is wanting to know exactly which tendon that sword…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Calithena, Andrew Martin, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Valamir, anonymouse.

10/27/2003 ejh: Throwaway Line in GNS Essay: Ron, what were you thinking?
"Arising as it did from wargaming in the middle 1970s, the earliest RPG design reflected its Gamist + Simulationist roots. However, within a year, design philosophies split very fast across…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: ejh, Valamir, AnyaTheBlue, Ian Charvill, Ron Edwards, Jonathan Walton, Mike Holmes.

10/27/2003 Calithena: D&D and Gamism, continued
This is in response to Mike Holmes' and subsequent posts on the D&D spells and gamism thread, because it's a more general topic. Ron's essay is right on as far…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Calithena, anonymouse, greyorm, failrate, Blake Hutchins, ScottM, Mike Holmes, M. J. Young, Andrew Norris.

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