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In GNS Model Discussion

10/25/2001 unheilig: Primeval. A G/N/S hybrid?
Anybody whose played Primeval knows it is a VERY narrative style of play. No stats, no skills, no rounds, no initiative. You tell the story of how your character overcomes…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: unheilig, hardcoremoose, Mytholder, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Ian O'Rourke, unodiablo.

10/24/2001 Daredevil: Simulationism and Narrativism Under the Same Roof
I'll give a bit of a background about my concerns, so you can see where I'm coming from. I'm currently designing a couple of different games, trying hard to advance…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Daredevil, Ron Edwards, Epoch, Mike Holmes, Paul Czege, Valamir, Marco, Laurel.

10/22/2001 Clinton R. Nixon: Gamism and Premise
contracycle (Gareth, I believe?) and I have been having a pretty spirited discussion in the "New essay by Ron" thread about where Premise comes from in Gamist RPGs. Here's a…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Clinton R. Nixon, jburneko, Mike Holmes, Bankuei, Don Lag, Matt, contracycle, Marco, Ron Edwards, joshua neff, Valamir, kwill.

10/19/2001 jburneko: Is GNS Good For GMs?
Hello All, Over the last few days TrzzlWzzl (sp?) has been expressing his distaste for the GNS model as it pertains to System Design and GMs. What you are seeing…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jburneko, Laurel, Ron Edwards, joshua neff, TrizzlWizzl, Marco.

10/18/2001 Manu: The 4 steps of action (for Ron)
Hey again, you mention these four steps in any action: Intention, Initiation, Completion and Effect; could you again provide some examples of what you were thinking about? Thank you -…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Manu, Ron Edwards, Laurel, Le Joueur.

10/18/2001 Manu: Task vs. Conflict and Scene vs. Action? (for Ron)
Hello Ron and all, You mentioned these in your essay; Could you please provide a few examples of these? I fail to see the nuance. Thanks.
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Manu, Mike Holmes, jburneko, Le Joueur, Matt, Ron Edwards.

10/17/2001 Epoch: "Story," Actor stance, and My Guy-ism
Ron requested a different thread for the continuation of this discussion. Hey Mike S (Epoch), can't leave that "story" issue alone, huh? Like a loose tooth. My claim is that…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Epoch, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, jburneko, TrizzlWizzl.

10/15/2001 Valamir: GNS Article: Why the focus on one primary aspect of GNS?
Not a challenge, just a request for ellucidation. Ron, early in your article you go to great lengths to describe that the presence of a gamist element in what is…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes.

10/15/2001 Paul Czege: not by pre-planning
From Ron's spiffy new GNS essay: They also vary a great deal in terms of unpredictable "shifts" of events during play. The key to Narrativist Premises is that they…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Paul Czege, Mike Holmes, Valamir, Ron Edwards, Tor Erickson, Epoch, contracycle, Le Joueur.

10/14/2001 Clinton R. Nixon: New essay by Ron
There's a new essay up by Ron on his newest thoughts on GNS, stances, actual play, and coherent game design. (This kind of replaces the FAQ - but it's not…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Clinton R. Nixon, joshua neff, Paul Czege, Epoch, contracycle, Ron Edwards, Valamir, Logan, Laurel, James Holloway, Mike Holmes, Blake Hutchins, Zak Arntson.

10/2/2001 Mike Holmes: Motivations and Behaviors of RPG Participants
As an extension to the discussion in Interesting Article... below, we'd like to look at a discussion of what sorts of motivations are found in people who play RPGs, and,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mike Holmes, Jared A. Sorensen, Gordon C. Landis, Paul Czege.

9/20/2001 Wart: Interesting Threefold Model Essay
There's an interesting article on the rgfa Threefold Model at http://home.earthlink.net/~bgleichman/Theory/Threefold/rgfa.htm which raises some interesting points, some of which might be applicable to the Forge GNS model. In particular, it…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Wart, Le Joueur, joshua neff, Gordon C. Landis, Knight, Ron Edwards, contracycle, Mike Holmes.

9/10/2001 Marco: Common Problems from GNS Incompatibility
I'm thinking this has been discussed elswhere but I just got into the GNS model and was discussing it with a friend and came up with this: When a group…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Marco, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards.

9/10/2001 Logan: A call for new terminology
In the actor/immersion thread, Fang mentioned that terminology that causes confusion should be changed. I agree with Fang. The longer this discussion goes on, the more obvious it is to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Logan, kwill, Valamir, Supplanter, Le Joueur.

9/7/2001 Jared A. Sorensen: The Beeg Horseshoe Theory
Actually, that should probably read: MY Beeg Horseshoe Theory Here it is: Imagine a beeeg horseshoe. At one end of the U is Gamism. At the other end of the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jared A. Sorensen, Mike Holmes, Clinton R. Nixon, GB Steve, Mytholder, Jack Spencer Jr, Supplanter, Knight, Cameron, gentrification, Marco, ConfigSys.boy, Ron Edwards, Wart, jburneko.

9/7/2001 GB Steve: Actor without Immersion
Hi Guys! I'm geeting into GNS nitty gritty today. I looked at the FAQ. Here are the relevant sections: In Actor Stance, the player is actually playing his character in…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: GB Steve, Supplanter, Logan, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Le Joueur, kwill, jburneko, contracycle, Mytholder.

9/2/2001 Supplanter: Karma, Fortune, Hunh?
I've been puzzled by Ron's claim that GNS orientation is completely independent of resolution method, meaning "Jonathan Tweet's triad of Karma, Fortune and Drama." Specifically, it always seemed obvious to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Supplanter, Ron Edwards, Uncle Dark, Paul Czege.

8/24/2001 Emily Care: Player Authorial Stance, N & S
This is a direct quote from the Simulationist Players section of the GNS FAQ: ]...the player is "inside" the character and ]has complete and utter authority ]over "my guy" and…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Emily Care, Gordon C. Landis, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes.

8/17/2001 morbus: Gamegrene.com Article on R/N/S
Entitled "The Great Divide". Read more here: http://www.gamegrene.com/gm/997796770.shtml A snippet: One of these sets of terms is my springboard for this article: the Gamist / Simulationist / Narrativist divide.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: morbus, kwill, Ron Edwards, Knight.

8/14/2001 John Wick: So, I gotta ask, is this "Simulationism?"
http://www.rpg.net/pf/read.php?f=5&i=108883&t=108883 Carpe Deum, John
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Wick, Gordon C. Landis, hardcoremoose, Ron Edwards, Epoch, Mytholder, Mike Holmes.

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Subsequent Topics
In GNS Model Discussion

10/31/2001 jburneko: Vanilla Narrativism vs. Simulationism
Hello All, Given the discussion down in the Bobby G thread and the Vanillia Narrativism thread there seems to be some confusion over what exactly the differences are between Vanilla…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jburneko, joshua neff, Ron Edwards, Marco, Mike Holmes.

11/2/2001 Matt Snyder: This thing called GNS
I've spent many hours slogging through Internet threads and posts. All in attempt, I suppose, to improve my understanding of my favorite past time, role-playing. As a player, GM, and…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Matt Snyder, Ron Edwards, jburneko, Mike Holmes, 333Chronzon.

11/12/2001 John Wick: C/L/S: A Bit of Good-Hearted Satire
I have a theory. I call it "The Sitting Theory." As far as I can see, everything you can sit on falls into one of three categories: Chairs, Loveseats and…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Wick, Marco, Mike Holmes, jburneko, Ron Edwards, Jared A. Sorensen, Gordon C. Landis, Jack Spencer Jr, Blake Hutchins, 333Chronzon, Mytholder, unodiablo, Laurel, Le Joueur.

11/27/2001 Mads Jakobsen: Gamism is not competition.
I know it’s been discussed a thousand times, but I must say it… Gamism is not competition. Most games are competitions (chess, football, warhammer). But a few is not (solitaire,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mads Jakobsen, Gordon C. Landis, contracycle, Ron Edwards, Marco, Matt, greyorm, Paul Czege, jburneko, Tor Erickson, Clinton R. Nixon.

11/29/2001 Paul Czege: The "general" system I've never seen
Hey Ron, In Chapter 5 of your "GNS and Other Matters..." essay, you describe a "general" system as holding "constant one or two of the listed elements of role-playing (Character,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Paul Czege, Ron Edwards, jburneko, Mike Holmes, Joe Murphy (Broin), Demonspahn, Bret.

12/5/2001 Bret: Question from a Clueless Newbie
Okay, all of this stuff is over my head. I've read the theory, read through some of the discussions, and my big question is: What is the usefulness of this?…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Bret, Ron Edwards, Zak Arntson, Epoch, Joe Murphy (Broin), jburneko, Balbinus, Mike Holmes, Paul Czege, Laurel, hardcoremoose.

12/5/2001 Balbinus: Statting, NPCs and GNS
Hi all, a brief exchange between Mike Holmes and JBurneko got me thinking about this. Basically, the pre-assigning or calculation of stats for NPCs, is it related to GNS? Mike…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Balbinus, Marco, mahoux, jburneko, Ian O'Rourke, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards, Gordon C. Landis, Epoch, Ben Morgan, Bankuei, lumpley, Laurel, Blake Hutchins, Le Joueur, Joe Murphy (Broin).

12/5/2001 jburneko: Name That Style
Hello All, There's a style of role-playing that I've found to be far more common among gamers than I originally thought. Personally, I'm having trouble understanding it mainly because I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jburneko, Mike Holmes, Le Joueur, Ron Edwards, Gordon C. Landis, Bret, lumpley, hardcoremoose, Clinton R. Nixon, James Holloway, Paul Czege.

12/7/2001 Gordon C. Landis: "Should I apply GNS?" Decision tree
Inpired by the Mads Jakobsen Gamism thread, the "What Style" thread, and the RPG.net . . . thing. 1-Are you having a problem with your RPG play/design? If NO, do…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis.

12/7/2001 jburneko: GNS The Big Picture
Hello All, I wanted to address some of Fangs comments he made down in the "Name That Style" thread. The things he said reminded me of something I think WE…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jburneko, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards, Le Joueur.

12/12/2001 Mark Blaxland: Gamism: The pursuit of excellence
This post, and my presence on this forum is largely a result of Mads Jakobsen's 'Gamism is not competition' thread, and it's spill-over to RPG.net (where I heard about it).…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mark Blaxland, Ron Edwards, Gordon C. Landis, Marco, Mike Holmes, Clinton R. Nixon, contracycle, jburneko.

12/12/2001 Clinton R. Nixon: Gamism in action
On another thread, Mark Blaxland wrote: This seems to me to infer that 'Gamist' games are all about winning. ... It's only natural, after all to want to 'win'.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Clinton R. Nixon, Ron Edwards.

12/14/2001 Gordon C. Landis: The Importance of Being External
So I found myself arguing for the legitimacy of "internal" Gamist measurement of performance in the "Gamism: The pursuit of excellence" thread. I added a few words about how there…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis, Ron Edwards.

12/17/2001 Ian O'Rourke: Where is the innovation in System?
Okay, Ron’s article on FLN got me thinking about narrativist games in particular. I find some of them great, and others I just find myself wondering how they can be…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ian O'Rourke, joshua neff, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, jburneko, Jared A. Sorensen, Gordon C. Landis, Paul Czege, James V. West.

12/26/2001 Daredevil: Narrativism and Bobby G
I was reading the old thread about Ron's concept of the Bobby G scenario. That thread got me thinking about narrativism in general. I'll admit I have a shaky understanding…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Daredevil, Le Joueur, Marco, hardcoremoose, Ryan Ary, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes.

12/27/2001 Daredevil: El Dorado
This thread is a continuation of two threads I started previously: "Narrativism and Simulationism Under the Same Roof" and "Narrativism and Bobby G". Thinking about the responses, I've been able…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Daredevil, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards, unodiablo, Ryan Ary, joshua neff, Paul Czege, Jeffrey Straszheim, contracycle.

12/27/2001 Skippy: A Connecticut Narrativist in King Arthur's Simulation
Okay, that's a really bad thread title. However, I would like some input, if you all please. I have spent most of the day reviewing GNS threads, trying to bring…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Skippy, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Joe Murphy (Broin), joshua neff, Paul Czege, hardcoremoose, Ryan Ary, contracycle.

12/31/2001 Knight: A systems discussion: the sword and the axe
One thing I'm not really comfortable with about the GNS model is it's application to game systems. So, this is an example of how three hypothetical systems of a medieval…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Knight, lumpley, Ron Edwards, Logan, Marco, Mike Holmes, Paul Czege.

1/7/2002 efindel: A Simulationist Thinks About Narrativism
Reading the recent threads about Simulationism and Narrativism, and also reading over my copies of Sorcerer and Sorcerer and Sword that I just got last week, it seems to me…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: efindel, Tim C Koppang, Ron Edwards, Gordon C. Landis, jburneko, Marco, contracycle, Daredevil, Mike Holmes.

1/9/2002 Matt Gwinn: Metamorphoses of a Gamer
This may not be the right place for this, but I didn't know where else to post it. I had a conversation with Moose recently about why I haven't been…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Matt Gwinn, Ron Edwards, efindel, joshua neff, Bankuei, Logan, hardcoremoose, Skippy.

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