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In GNS Model Discussion

11/30/2003 greyorm: WotC Market Research & GNS
Over at ENWorld, there was an announcement about the following survey data complied by WotC in 1999: Breakdown of RPG Players. Here's my questions: how accurate do you believe the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: greyorm, xiombarg, Walt Freitag, jdagna, Emily Care, contracycle, beingfrank.

11/29/2003 Silmenume: Creative Agenda and behavioral disconnects
I think one of the reasons the people have a hard time grappling with the idea of a creative agenda is that CA is the expression of desire unexamined. What…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Harlequin, M. J. Young, Ron Edwards, b_bankhead, Mike Holmes, Tim C Koppang.

11/28/2003 Ian Charvill: Falsifying GNS
In a couple of threads recently people have raised the idea that GNS is not falsifiable so therefore is questionable as a theory. It occurs to me that GNS is…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ian Charvill, Valamir, Ron Edwards, pete_darby, jdagna, Christopher Kubasik, marcus, beingfrank, MachMoth.

11/27/2003 John Kim: Open Play for the Soul
[quote="Paganini"] Narrativism is about setting up a specific kind of choice for the characters to face. Call them urgent choices. For one reason or another, an urgent choice can't just…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, Ian Charvill, Christopher Kubasik, greyorm, Valamir, Mike Holmes.

11/24/2003 marcus: Why is the Prioritization the Thing?
Hello there- first time poster to this forum. When first reading Ron's various essays on GNS, I formed the view that Ron was saying that a good RPG should contain…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: marcus, Calithena, pete_darby, M. J. Young, Valamir, Ian Charvill, jdagna, Mike Holmes, greyorm, Christopher Kubasik, Ron Edwards.

11/20/2003 Paganini: Narrativism for the Soul
So, all these recent threads have really been great, but they're very deep, and awfully technical. Last night I was thinking about all this, and a new way of communicating…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Paganini, Valamir, Ron Edwards, Ian Charvill, John Burdick, Calithena, ejh, Christopher Kubasik, Walt Freitag, M. J. Young.

11/20/2003 M. J. Young: <i>Post Ludem</i> GNS Analysis
[i]I probably shouldn't start this thread; I'm too far behind on what was posted over the weekend as it is. But if I don't, I'll forget, and it will be…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: M. J. Young, Harlequin, jdagna, Christopher Kubasik, Ron Edwards, John Kim, joshua neff, Paul Czege.

11/19/2003 Matt Snyder: Color blind
Folks, let's talk about Color. In a couple of recent threads, I brought up exploration of Color In one instance, I referenced it as part of a larger point. In…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Matt Snyder, kalyptein, Ron Edwards.

11/18/2003 Ben Lehman: Exploration and Creative Agenda
I have been following with great interest the recent spate of threads about the overall structure of Ron Edward's General Role-Playing Theory. These are, in general, very useful threads, in…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ben Lehman, Alan, Ron Edwards, pete_darby, Valamir, Mike Holmes, Gordon C. Landis.

11/18/2003 Christopher Kubasik: Art? Science? Black Magic? Whatever...
Hi All, Look. This whole "intent" / "observation" / "analysis" thing has gotten way out of hand, so let me offer this: I live in Los Angeles. And that means…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Christopher Kubasik, Ron Edwards, ejh, Emily Care, John Kim, Noon, Andrew Martin, Valamir, Gordon C. Landis, M. J. Young, GreatWolf, The GM.

11/18/2003 Walt Freitag: Questioning the "few key decisions" paradigm
On the What's the Bugaboo About Out of Character Context? thread, Paganini wrote: Before we can identify Mode of Play X as being prioritized, Mode of Play X first has…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Walt Freitag, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Gordon C. Landis, M. J. Young.

11/18/2003 Marco: GNS/Creative Agenda Essay [long]
I received this in email. I'm not sure I agree with all of it--but I was asked my opinion on it. I asked permission to post it, and do so…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Marco, Paul Czege, Ian Charvill, Matt Snyder, Valamir, John Kim, Mike Holmes, Andrew Martin, Walt Freitag, Ron Edwards.

11/17/2003 Jonathan Walton: But a Model of What?
It's the new game that's thrilling millions! "De-Contextualize the (GNS) Model!" Starting with Ron's model for the social interactions that produce roleplaying, recently clarified in this thread, agile minds attempt…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jonathan Walton, Christopher Kubasik, Paganini, Andrew Martin, Tomas HVM, Ron Edwards, Matt Snyder, The GM, pete_darby, Valamir, Mike Holmes, Ben Lehman, contracycle, M. J. Young.

11/16/2003 Christopher Kubasik: I Get It! (I think)
Hi All, Okay. Thanks to Marco and John's replies to my question about OOC bugaboos, I think something has snapped into place. A lot of this is old hand even…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Christopher Kubasik, Matt Snyder, Ron Edwards, Marco, John Kim, pete_darby.

11/16/2003 Noon: whoops post (split from GNS & Social Contract)
[quote="The GM"]*snip* Using GNS designations, the campaign swung wildly from one spectrum to the other, frequently mid-session as I, being the storyteller, purposefully provided aspects of each category to satisfy…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Noon, Ron Edwards.

11/16/2003 Christopher Kubasik: What's the Bugaboo About Out of Character Context?
Hi all, I've noticed that the "Address Premise" thread has become a thread about whether "out of character" input matters to analyzing a game for a G, N or S…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Christopher Kubasik, John Kim, Alan, Marco, greyorm, jdagna, Paganini, contracycle, Ian Charvill, Halzebier, Ron Edwards, Matt Snyder.

11/14/2003 Loki: Scene Framing and Turtles
I've been doing some reading about Scene Framing and think I have my head around it. In fact, one of my GM friends introduced me to this technique about a…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Loki, Bob McNamee, John Kim, Mike Holmes, jdagna, Noon, Ron Edwards.

11/14/2003 Jack Spencer Jr: I'd love to see an expansion of "address."
In another thread, the sentence "I'd love to see an expansion of "address." " came up as in what does it mean to address a premise. So, what does it…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jack Spencer Jr, Ron Edwards, Marco, Ian Charvill, Matt Snyder, Christopher Kubasik, Valamir, greyorm, John Kim, Bob McNamee, C. Edwards, contracycle, Paganini, M. J. Young.

11/13/2003 pete_darby: Another way that sim play is downright weird...
[quote]I'd go as far as to say that player interest in the inability of characters to adequately address the premise is in itself a good indicator of narrativist play, just…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: pete_darby, Ron Edwards, Marco, Ian Charvill, Gordon C. Landis, jdagna, Jack Spencer Jr.

11/11/2003 Ron Edwards: The whole model - this is it
Hello, All the following material is supplemental to the existing essays, but it also overrules them as well as any of my previous comments in forum discussions at any point…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards, Ben Lehman, Marco, M. J. Young, Eero Tuovinen, The GM, Valamir, C. Edwards, Lxndr, Matt Snyder, Mike Holmes, lumpley, jdagna, Ian Charvill, Walt Freitag, cruciel, Jack Aidley, Gordon C. Landis, Jonathan Walton, contracycle, jeffd, Silmenume, Jack Spencer Jr, Palaskar.

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In GNS Model Discussion

12/6/2003 M. J. Young: Toward a Name for the Theory
Ron recently pointed out that it's a mistake to refer to his roleplaying model as "GNS", which is an accident of history and at this point a rather limited (if…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: M. J. Young, Tim C Koppang, Ron Edwards, Jonathan Walton, Mark Johnson, xiombarg.

12/6/2003 kwill: quick clarification: loving each CA
in the discussion I've been following about the box model, I want to verify where we're at in terms of "preference" and support for different CAs as I recall the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: kwill, John Kim, Ron Edwards, Emily Care.

12/6/2003 kwill: LARPing: in the boxes?
how do others see LARPing interacting with the model? just another medium for exploration, or a totally different paradigm all together? my initial take is that the differences operate at…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: kwill, Eero Tuovinen, kalyptein, Ron Edwards, Tomas HVM, hanschristianandersen, Erling Rognli, M. J. Young, xiombarg, Matt.

12/6/2003 Michael S. Miller: Where's the water?
So I’m pushing the snowblower and thinking about RPGs. It occurs to me that there are two distinct parts of the gaming experience: the shared imaginative space and the support…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Michael S. Miller, Jack Spencer Jr, John Kim.

12/7/2003 Jonathan Walton: Creative Agenda only retroactive?
Hey guys, Need a clarification for this paper on aesthetic theory in roleplaying. Creative Agenda is something that can only be retrospectively said to exist, correct? Isn't that part of…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jonathan Walton, Mark Johnson, Silmenume, Alan, Christopher Kubasik, Ron Edwards, John Kim, M. J. Young, Andrew Martin, Eero Tuovinen.

12/10/2003 Ian Charvill: Theme and GNS
Over in Why Should the Narrativist Premise be Pre-Set in Sorcerer? Chris suggested creating a daughter thread on the issue of theme and GNS. Here's what I take theme and…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ian Charvill, Ben Lehman, Ron Edwards, John Kim, Mike Holmes, Alan, Gordon C. Landis, lumpley, Christopher Kubasik, Matt Snyder, Valamir.

12/14/2003 MachMoth: "What You're Given," or "Gamism on the Fly
When I DM a round of pure-gamist D&D, I've noticed three major types of character development, planned, extemporaneous, and on-the-fly. For example, many of the players sit down, and plan…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: MachMoth, Noon.

12/15/2003 greyorm: Narrativism & Illusionism (and other matters)
This discussion is split from Schizo Exalted. If Narrativism isn't about telling/creating a narrative, then wouldn't it be a bit of a misnomer? And you're right, charcters with a weak…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: greyorm, Noon, eyebeams, M. J. Young, Ron Edwards, Gordon C. Landis.

12/17/2003 Gordon C. Landis: Looking at eyebeams objections to GNS
A response to Malcolm's thoughts about GNS in this thread didn't seem to fit with the focus of that thread - so I thought I'd start a new one.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis, greyorm, eyebeams, contracycle, Calithena, Ron Edwards, Ian Charvill, Mike Holmes.

12/17/2003 Calithena: Simulationism
In the thread at http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=9025 , I offered some thoughts on Exalted. These lead me to ask some questions. Ron's distinction there between the excitement generated by thinking about a…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Calithena, Alan, Ian Charvill, Ron Edwards, M. J. Young, Silmenume.

12/17/2003 Mike Holmes: Mike's Standard Rant #7: Designing for Gamism Ain't Easy
This one was touched off by this thread. In that thread, Chris is pointing out how hard it is to make a balanced game. I agree, but worse than that,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mike Holmes, GreatWolf, Jack Spencer Jr, LordSmerf, quozl, Noon, Ben Lehman, Bankuei, Andrew Martin, anonymouse, greyorm, xiombarg, Valamir, Drifter Bob, Harlequin, ADGBoss.

12/18/2003 anonymouse: Up-front Gamism.
From M.Holmes's seventh rant, Raven quoth: Something occurs to me about a design element no one else has mentioned, but which you bring up numerous times: the players never know…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: anonymouse, xiombarg, Mike Holmes.

12/18/2003 The GM: Quick ? about a couple of systems
Hey guys, If this isn't the right spot for this, please let me know. I've read a little bit about D&D and its 'alignment' (no pun intended!) w/ GNS in…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: The GM, Ron Edwards, Valamir, xiombarg, M. J. Young, Andrew Martin, Mike Holmes, John Kim, greyorm.

12/18/2003 Ron Edwards: [Narrativism essay] Concept & excerpt
Hello, I wonder how many people are going to find this surprising. It's a teeny excerpt from my upcoming Narrativism essay. ************ Let's say that the following transcript arose from…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards, xiombarg, jdagna, John Kim, kalyptein, Halzebier, John Burdick, greyorm, Gordon C. Landis, ethan_greer, Walt Freitag, Jack Spencer Jr, Silmenume, qxjit, hix, Ian Charvill, jburneko, Valamir, Bankuei, Emily Care, Mike Holmes, Matt Snyder, Lxndr, Troy_Costisick, pete_darby.

12/18/2003 quozl: Good Gamist Deisgn
First, read Mike's rant. Now, please give good examples on how RPGs have implemented strategy & tactics in play. Please note that I only wish to examine RPG rules, not…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: quozl, Ben Lehman, LordSmerf, Thierry Michel, greyorm, Mike Holmes, Caldis, GreatWolf, xiombarg, epweissengruber.

12/21/2003 John Kim: Simulationist Storytelling Systems?
So something seems to be missing for me in the picture of how games are classified GNS-wise. Traditional cause-to-effect mechanics tend to be called simulationist, but I think that simulationist…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, Valamir, Mike Holmes, Ian Charvill, xiombarg, Ron Edwards.

12/21/2003 Silmenume: Shared Imagined Space and Imagination - Split
I broke this off from the Why we (I?) roleplay - especially in the Simulationist mode to deal with the topic of the Shared Imagined Space that had arisen. I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Jack Spencer Jr, John Kim, lumpley, Alan, Ron Edwards, M. J. Young.

12/23/2003 matthijs: GNS and game success (split)
I'm not sure if this point has been made elsewhere, but it seems to me that one of the reasons that early D&D and Vampire were so successful, is their…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: matthijs, Ron Edwards, The GM, xiombarg, Christopher Kubasik, Marhault.

12/26/2003 John Kim: Simulationism Revisited
OK, After more-or-less fence-sitting for a while, I am starting to form my own opinions on GNS as a whole. I will hold off on comments on Narrativism for Ron's…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, M. J. Young, Caynreth, Silmenume, Ron Edwards, Gordon C. Landis, lumpley, Paul Czege, cruciel, Ian Charvill.

12/29/2003 Alan: Systems of group meaning negotiation.
I started this new thread to discuss this idea. For background, look at the 6th through 13 message in Shared Imagined Space and Imagination - Split …
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Alan, Ron Edwards, Matt Wilson, Ian Charvill, John Kim.

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