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In GNS Model Discussion

11/16/2003 Christopher Kubasik: What's the Bugaboo About Out of Character Context?
Hi all, I've noticed that the "Address Premise" thread has become a thread about whether "out of character" input matters to analyzing a game for a G, N or S…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Christopher Kubasik, John Kim, Alan, Marco, greyorm, jdagna, Paganini, contracycle, Ian Charvill, Halzebier, Ron Edwards, Matt Snyder.

11/14/2003 Loki: Scene Framing and Turtles
I've been doing some reading about Scene Framing and think I have my head around it. In fact, one of my GM friends introduced me to this technique about a…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Loki, Bob McNamee, John Kim, Mike Holmes, jdagna, Noon, Ron Edwards.

11/14/2003 Jack Spencer Jr: I'd love to see an expansion of "address."
In another thread, the sentence "I'd love to see an expansion of "address." " came up as in what does it mean to address a premise. So, what does it…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jack Spencer Jr, Ron Edwards, Marco, Ian Charvill, Matt Snyder, Christopher Kubasik, Valamir, greyorm, John Kim, Bob McNamee, C. Edwards, contracycle, Paganini, M. J. Young.

11/13/2003 pete_darby: Another way that sim play is downright weird...
[quote]I'd go as far as to say that player interest in the inability of characters to adequately address the premise is in itself a good indicator of narrativist play, just…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: pete_darby, Ron Edwards, Marco, Ian Charvill, Gordon C. Landis, jdagna, Jack Spencer Jr.

11/11/2003 Ron Edwards: The whole model - this is it
Hello, All the following material is supplemental to the existing essays, but it also overrules them as well as any of my previous comments in forum discussions at any point…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards, Ben Lehman, Marco, M. J. Young, Eero Tuovinen, The GM, Valamir, C. Edwards, Lxndr, Matt Snyder, Mike Holmes, lumpley, jdagna, Ian Charvill, Walt Freitag, cruciel, Jack Aidley, Gordon C. Landis, Jonathan Walton, contracycle, jeffd, Silmenume, Jack Spencer Jr, Palaskar.

11/11/2003 pete_darby: Weak humour...
...brought to you by the "find and replace function" and his own early (flailing) attempts to understand GNS. If I recall the exchanges went something like this.... The SIM Sketch…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: pete_darby.

11/10/2003 Paganini: Fatalism and Narrativsm
The discussion at the end of this thread caught my eye, but Ron closed it afore I could post: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=8494 There was some talk about Boewulf and Huck Finn not…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Paganini, Ron Edwards, John Kim, M. J. Young, Marco, Christopher Kubasik, Ian Charvill, pete_darby, Walt Freitag, Gordon C. Landis, fusangite, C. Edwards.

11/8/2003 greyorm: Narrativism: What the Heck is it?
This thread is being started based on a number of recent newcomers to the Forge who have been having trouble with the concept of Narrativism and what it entails...mainly, their…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: greyorm, fusangite, Ron Edwards, newsalor, Matt Snyder, jdagna.

11/7/2003 Ben Lehman: Gamist Characteristics
Hi. I've been doing a lot of thought recently into the methods and modes of Gamism, largely to help me with the design of Tactics. I thought I would…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ben Lehman, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards, Rich Forest, fusangite, pete_darby, contracycle, Walt Freitag.

11/7/2003 fusangite: New Threefold Division to Compete with GNS
I had never heard of the GNS division when I posted a thread on my theory of play to ENWorld. However, a kind soul directed me here and suggested that…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: fusangite, Calithena, Ian Charvill, jdagna.

11/4/2003 Bevan: Metagame and the GNS
It seems to me that something that the Narrativist and the Gamist have in common over the Simulationist is a preference to metagame. The Simulationist's main goal is to directly…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Bevan, jdagna, Ian Charvill, Ben Lehman, Mike Holmes.

11/3/2003 Bevan: Membership ratio of GNS
I'm currently involved in a Changeling larp. I used to be one of the Storytellers running it, but due to stress, time, and general frustration, I stepped down to player…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Bevan, jdagna, Ron Edwards, Emily Care, Marco, lumpley, Jack Spencer Jr, Mike Holmes, John Kim, Eero Tuovinen.

10/31/2003 Calithena: GNS: Theses, Claims, Comments, and Questions
1. Gamism, simulationism, and narratism are modes of play for games. (Question: is there some principled reason for thinking that these are all there are? What is it? Or is…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Calithena, M. J. Young, Ian Charvill, Mike Holmes.

10/30/2003 Calithena: DERPG and GNS
I'm jumping ahead to the next step here, but I want to pose a basic question and see how people answer it. I think that the Dying Earth RPG is…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Calithena, Ron Edwards, gentrification.

10/30/2003 Calithena: Premise Revisited - Educate Me
I get stance, and the actor/author stance distinction has been one of the most fertile ideas I've gotten for thinking about my gaming in a long, long time. I think…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Calithena, Ian Charvill, Ron Edwards, greyorm, Valamir, Tim C Koppang, Mike Holmes, Lxndr, Marco, C. Edwards, lumpley, Gordon C. Landis, M. J. Young, Paganini.

10/29/2003 The GM: Gaming On Purpose
Aight, here's a follow up to my other thread. Basically, I felt like it wasn't getting anywhere, even though there were some nuggets of info that made me think 'aaaah,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: The GM, Valamir, Mike Holmes, Ben Lehman, Ron Edwards.

10/28/2003 Mike Holmes: Credibility for the Player
It's assumed that in most traditional power split games that the player has control over his own character. And I think that's true, but simplifies things too much. I think…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mike Holmes, Marco, jdagna, gobi, M. J. Young, Calithena, A.Neill, Jonathan Walton, Emily Care, fusangite, Noon, Harlequin, Valamir, Ron Edwards.

10/28/2003 greyorm: GNS & Inclusiveness?
Over here MJ Young said:...the answer of the simulationist is, "You're exploring the wrong thing. You have prioritized specific aspects of the world to explore. We're not doing that; we…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: greyorm, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, M. J. Young, fusangite, Matt Snyder, John Kim, Ian Charvill, Alan.

10/28/2003 M. J. Young: GNS Conflict with the Referee
In the thread GNS and Social Contract,Problems only occur when players don't like the play of he other players. That is, it's not enough to ensure that the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: M. J. Young, Anthony I, Mike Holmes.

10/27/2003 Calithena: D&D and Gamism, continued
This is in response to Mike Holmes' and subsequent posts on the D&D spells and gamism thread, because it's a more general topic. Ron's essay is right on as far…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Calithena, anonymouse, greyorm, failrate, Blake Hutchins, ScottM, Mike Holmes, M. J. Young, Andrew Norris.

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In GNS Model Discussion

11/16/2003 Christopher Kubasik: I Get It! (I think)
Hi All, Okay. Thanks to Marco and John's replies to my question about OOC bugaboos, I think something has snapped into place. A lot of this is old hand even…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Christopher Kubasik, Matt Snyder, Ron Edwards, Marco, John Kim, pete_darby.

11/17/2003 Jonathan Walton: But a Model of What?
It's the new game that's thrilling millions! "De-Contextualize the (GNS) Model!" Starting with Ron's model for the social interactions that produce roleplaying, recently clarified in this thread, agile minds attempt…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jonathan Walton, Christopher Kubasik, Paganini, Andrew Martin, Tomas HVM, Ron Edwards, Matt Snyder, The GM, pete_darby, Valamir, Mike Holmes, Ben Lehman, contracycle, M. J. Young.

11/18/2003 Marco: GNS/Creative Agenda Essay [long]
I received this in email. I'm not sure I agree with all of it--but I was asked my opinion on it. I asked permission to post it, and do so…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Marco, Paul Czege, Ian Charvill, Matt Snyder, Valamir, John Kim, Mike Holmes, Andrew Martin, Walt Freitag, Ron Edwards.

11/18/2003 Walt Freitag: Questioning the "few key decisions" paradigm
On the What's the Bugaboo About Out of Character Context? thread, Paganini wrote: Before we can identify Mode of Play X as being prioritized, Mode of Play X first has…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Walt Freitag, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Gordon C. Landis, M. J. Young.

11/18/2003 Christopher Kubasik: Art? Science? Black Magic? Whatever...
Hi All, Look. This whole "intent" / "observation" / "analysis" thing has gotten way out of hand, so let me offer this: I live in Los Angeles. And that means…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Christopher Kubasik, Ron Edwards, ejh, Emily Care, John Kim, Noon, Andrew Martin, Valamir, Gordon C. Landis, M. J. Young, GreatWolf, The GM.

11/18/2003 Ben Lehman: Exploration and Creative Agenda
I have been following with great interest the recent spate of threads about the overall structure of Ron Edward's General Role-Playing Theory. These are, in general, very useful threads, in…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ben Lehman, Alan, Ron Edwards, pete_darby, Valamir, Mike Holmes, Gordon C. Landis.

11/19/2003 Matt Snyder: Color blind
Folks, let's talk about Color. In a couple of recent threads, I brought up exploration of Color In one instance, I referenced it as part of a larger point. In…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Matt Snyder, kalyptein, Ron Edwards.

11/20/2003 M. J. Young: <i>Post Ludem</i> GNS Analysis
[i]I probably shouldn't start this thread; I'm too far behind on what was posted over the weekend as it is. But if I don't, I'll forget, and it will be…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: M. J. Young, Harlequin, jdagna, Christopher Kubasik, Ron Edwards, John Kim, joshua neff, Paul Czege.

11/20/2003 Paganini: Narrativism for the Soul
So, all these recent threads have really been great, but they're very deep, and awfully technical. Last night I was thinking about all this, and a new way of communicating…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Paganini, Valamir, Ron Edwards, Ian Charvill, John Burdick, Calithena, ejh, Christopher Kubasik, Walt Freitag, M. J. Young.

11/24/2003 marcus: Why is the Prioritization the Thing?
Hello there- first time poster to this forum. When first reading Ron's various essays on GNS, I formed the view that Ron was saying that a good RPG should contain…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: marcus, Calithena, pete_darby, M. J. Young, Valamir, Ian Charvill, jdagna, Mike Holmes, greyorm, Christopher Kubasik, Ron Edwards.

11/27/2003 John Kim: Open Play for the Soul
[quote="Paganini"] Narrativism is about setting up a specific kind of choice for the characters to face. Call them urgent choices. For one reason or another, an urgent choice can't just…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, Ian Charvill, Christopher Kubasik, greyorm, Valamir, Mike Holmes.

11/28/2003 Ian Charvill: Falsifying GNS
In a couple of threads recently people have raised the idea that GNS is not falsifiable so therefore is questionable as a theory. It occurs to me that GNS is…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ian Charvill, Valamir, Ron Edwards, pete_darby, jdagna, Christopher Kubasik, marcus, beingfrank, MachMoth.

11/29/2003 Silmenume: Creative Agenda and behavioral disconnects
I think one of the reasons the people have a hard time grappling with the idea of a creative agenda is that CA is the expression of desire unexamined. What…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Harlequin, M. J. Young, Ron Edwards, b_bankhead, Mike Holmes, Tim C Koppang.

11/30/2003 greyorm: WotC Market Research & GNS
Over at ENWorld, there was an announcement about the following survey data complied by WotC in 1999: Breakdown of RPG Players. Here's my questions: how accurate do you believe the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: greyorm, xiombarg, Walt Freitag, jdagna, Emily Care, contracycle, beingfrank.

12/3/2003 Tomas HVM: The essential conflict
I've enjoyed reading the start of "Silmenume"s thread on simulationism immensely. Thanks to "Silmenume" for his writings. One of his points promped me to comment, and I have chosen to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Tomas HVM, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards, Walt Freitag.

12/6/2003 M. J. Young: Toward a Name for the Theory
Ron recently pointed out that it's a mistake to refer to his roleplaying model as "GNS", which is an accident of history and at this point a rather limited (if…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: M. J. Young, Tim C Koppang, Ron Edwards, Jonathan Walton, Mark Johnson, xiombarg.

12/6/2003 kwill: quick clarification: loving each CA
in the discussion I've been following about the box model, I want to verify where we're at in terms of "preference" and support for different CAs as I recall the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: kwill, John Kim, Ron Edwards, Emily Care.

12/6/2003 kwill: LARPing: in the boxes?
how do others see LARPing interacting with the model? just another medium for exploration, or a totally different paradigm all together? my initial take is that the differences operate at…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: kwill, Eero Tuovinen, kalyptein, Ron Edwards, Tomas HVM, hanschristianandersen, Erling Rognli, M. J. Young, xiombarg, Matt.

12/6/2003 Michael S. Miller: Where's the water?
So I’m pushing the snowblower and thinking about RPGs. It occurs to me that there are two distinct parts of the gaming experience: the shared imaginative space and the support…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Michael S. Miller, Jack Spencer Jr, John Kim.

12/7/2003 Jonathan Walton: Creative Agenda only retroactive?
Hey guys, Need a clarification for this paper on aesthetic theory in roleplaying. Creative Agenda is something that can only be retrospectively said to exist, correct? Isn't that part of…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jonathan Walton, Mark Johnson, Silmenume, Alan, Christopher Kubasik, Ron Edwards, John Kim, M. J. Young, Andrew Martin, Eero Tuovinen.

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