Previous threads on "Dominion":

Abilities in “Dominion”: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=10069

Dominion: Jihad: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=9651&highlight=

[Note: technically "Dominion" is now just one setting for the game system I'm working on. The game is about the conflicting passions among movers and shakers in feudal settings, who are often engaged in physical combat, and who have occasional access to both "black" and "white" magic. However, I don't yet have a name for the game system, so I'll just keep on using the "Dominion" name for now when refering to the game.]

So, I was reading the thread on the Eclipse game ( http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=9910&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 ), and I realized that the Dominion game is at best a Science Fantasy Heartbraker. It might qualify for Heartbraker status because of some of the ideas for the passions and for the setting that I've been kicking around (which haven't been posted in their latest iterations). But, the combat system seems totally uninspired.

The goal of the combat system is to create a delicate balance between incorporating the passions, setting Sim, and low handling-time. There's supposed to be interest created both in the passions that the characters act on or fail to act on and (to a lesser degree) in the tactics chosen by the players.

With the Dominion setting, there is a simple set of tactical features to navigate. Weapon choices are: handguns, assault rifles, grenades, rpg's, and plasma projectors (basically, light sabers, though they don't "parry", and can be projected to varying lengths--also, they are only used for ritualized dueling or for close combat situations, and the latter are less common than in Star Wars movies). Each weapon is a combination of range, damage dice, blast radius, reload time, and concealability. Armor choices are: skin suits, exoarmor, and power armor. Each armor is a combination of concealability, targeting features, and protection dice.

The basic idea is that the weapons in this particular setting are freakin' dangerous, so if you don't dodge the explosive projectile, and if you don't have any armor, you're in real trouble. Not necessarily dead (the PCs generally only die if it's dramatically appropriate--and, with this game, magical healing or high tech medicine is often available to PCs), but you're at least out of the combat.

It's because of this that I want the attack roll to be separate from the damage roll, like in D&D, Runequest, etc. Some of these weapons will do no damage, if you're agile enough--yet, if you're physically hit and you've no armor, it's over for you. So, there's an incentive to keep the attack and damage rolls separate, and to focus on task resolution, not conflict resolution.

But, the best I could come up with is the following plain vanilla system. I consider it "adequate" but am not positively happy with it.

DOMINION Combat

General resolution rule: Roll a # of d6’s equal to the stat being tested, plus bonuses or penalties for passions, situation, and role-play. (Bonuses/penalties are always in terms of numbers of dice.) Each “6” rolled counts as a “success.”

Abilities relevant to physical combat: Physique (Ph), Dexterity (Dex), Speed (Spd); Occupatin (Occ).

Steps in Combat Resolution:

Initiative: Characters act in order of Spd. A character can “hold” until a later Spd #. [Insert rules about holding.]

Each physical attack is handled as follows:

1. Attack Roll: Attacker rolls a # of dice equal to Dex + Occ (if combat-related). Every “6” equals a success (hit).

2. Defend Roll: If the attacker has at least one success, the target then rolls to defend. Target rolls a # of dice equal to Spd + Occ (if combat-related). Every “6” means the target negates one success of the attacker.

3. Damage Roll: If at least one attacker success is not negated by the defend roll, then the attacker rolls for damage. Attacker rolls a # of dice equal to # of hits + Ph (for a muscle-powered attack), or + the weapon’s damage stat (for self-propelled weapons).

4. Resistance Roll: If at least one damage die succeeds, the target rolls to resist. Target rolls a # of dice equal to Ph + armor bonus (if any).

5. Apply Damage: If any damage roll successes are not resisted, these are then deducted from the target’s Ph. When Ph equals 0 the target is dead or incapacitated or thwarted in some way (context-dependent).

My question is, is there any way I can tweak this system to enhance player interest, given what the the game is "about," without going off the deep end in terms of handling time? (Note: this system may itself look to be moderately heavy in terms of handling time already, but keep in mind then when you roll all those d6's, you're just looking for rolls of "6," and not for any other rolls.)

Regards,

Rexfelis

A combat system alone does not a hearbreaker make or break. What you have seems pretty standard, but you seem to have some new and interesting concepts, overall. So it's hard to say at this point if it's a heartbreaker or not. Too little info.

You mention the passions, and how they should affect combat - I don't see any of that in the process you describe. Where do the passions come in? Mechanically.

Mike

The basic idea is that the weapons in this particular setting are freakin' dangerous, so if you don't dodge the explosive projectile, and if you don't have any armor, you're in real trouble. Not necessarily dead (the PCs generally only die if it's dramatically appropriate--and, with this game, magical healing or high tech medicine is often available to PCs), but you're at least out of the combat.

It's because of this that I want the attack roll to be separate from the damage roll, like in D&D, Runequest, etc. Some of these weapons will do no damage, if you're agile enough--yet, if you're physically hit and you've no armor, it's over for you. So, there's an incentive to keep the attack and damage rolls separate, and to focus on task resolution, not conflict resolution.

Mike Holmes wrote: A combat system alone does not a hearbreaker make or break. What you have seems pretty standard, but you seem to have some new and interesting concepts, overall. So it's hard to say at this point if it's a heartbreaker or not. Too little info.

You mention the passions, and how they should affect combat - I don't see any of that in the process you describe. Where do the passions come in? Mechanically.

Mike

Valamir wrote:
Hey Rex.
You may want to check out Mongrel the game Ron used as an example for his Simulationism Essay.

Combat in that game is meant to be equally deadly...when you hit you tend to do massive amounts of eviscerating damage...but comes at the problem from a much different angle.

Might be a useful touch point for inspiration.

Don't fret *too* much-
I've often been explaining parts of my game/world to others to which they go "Oh yea, I saw that in ". Heh, I even had an idea roughly related to midichloriates (or how the freck do you spell that?!) long before SW Episode 1 came out and brought up that (I like mine more though ^_^), and I'm still using that for my magic system, it was too much a part of my world to change~
Focus on whats different/unique/cool about yours~ Way I see it, if you're not wholesale lifting of someone elses ideas and the concept/rules you're using for that don't appear to be dropped in 'because its convienent', it might actually help; thats less you have to explain and less of a hurdle for some audiance members to get over.
Plus too, as one of my artists put it, with 6 billion people on the face of the Earth, the odds are high someones going to have similar thoughts~ Just make sure to present your 'recycled' thoughts in new/intereting ways ^_^

daMoose_Neo wrote: Focus on whats different/unique/cool about yours~ Way I see it, if you're not wholesale lifting of someone elses ideas and the concept/rules you're using for that don't appear to be dropped in 'because its convienent', it might actually help; thats less you have to explain and less of a hurdle for some audiance members to get over.
Plus too, as one of my artists put it, with 6 billion people on the face of the Earth, the odds are high someones going to have similar thoughts~ Just make sure to present your 'recycled' thoughts in new/intereting ways ^_^

You say "in order of speed." Highest to lowest, or lowest to highest?

Your damage mechanic suffers from the same problem that white wolf's (varialbe TN version) does: redundant soak. Why not just have the attacker roll (hits + phy/dam)-(phy + armor) dice? Very comparable results, gets rid of one dice pool every attack or three.

Do muscle-powered weapons have damage modifiers? Other modifiers? Do ranged weapons have modifiers other than damage?

Is there any way to perform multiple actions at once? Do you want Dominion to encourage or discourage this? Does it?

I like the way one stat covers most of a character's skill set. Is it possible for them to pick up skills outside their occupation, like in *Claw? (Erm... that's not to combat related, but oh well.)

I hope these questions help, and good luck with your game. :^)
--Jeff

I have since decided to make Dominion a Sorcerer variant. It's a very weird thing, but it occurred to me that most of what I was going for can be accomplished by tweaking Sorcerer.

The 3 abilities are Body, Mind, and Spirit, each with a descriptor. "Cover" is re-named Occupation or Career. The "Price" becomes a Flaw, as for Naive sorcerers in S&S. Each character has a Destiny, as in S&S.

There is no distinct mechanic for the Passions. Instead, the Passions are folded into the descriptors for the Spirit Ability, into the character's Destiny, and into his Flaw. Thus, a (cliched) character may have Spirit 5 (loyal, vengeance), a Destiny to become king, and a Flaw of Wraithful.

Humanity is interpreted as the bundle of traits and behaviors which are approved by society at large and by whichever entities are the focus of the society's reverence/worship.

What threw me at first is that my game is not focused on demons. I figured the rules had to be fundamentally different from Sorcerer. Now I don't think so. I'm eager to start play-testing to find out.

Your damage mechanic suffers from the same problem that white wolf's (varialbe TN version) does: redundant soak. Why not just have the attacker roll (hits + phy/dam)-(phy + armor) dice? Very comparable results, gets rid of one dice pool every attack or three.

I like the way one stat covers most of a character's skill set. Is it possible for them to pick up skills outside their occupation, like in *Claw? (Erm... that's not to combat related, but oh well.)

I hope these questions help, and good luck with your game. :^)
--Jeff