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I'm debating going to Gama next March... it is after all one of the best places to reach the retailers... but I may just settle for an ad in thier onsite book.

My question is, does Forge or people from here typically go to this show? Do you guys share a booth there? Should we? Should I sponsor one?

In short getting books from RPGMall into the hands of retailers is one of our major goals fo that site... so it would make sense to go. But that's a 2 week trip for me since my dogs, baby, and wife don't fly- we'd have to drive.

James

Ron Edwards and I have gone the last few years, and with good effect. we generally go with our fulfillment agency, Tundra Sales.

Jake

Hi James,

These older threads may be of interest:

GAMA Trade Show (prior to 2003 show)
GAMA debriefing (after 2002 show)
GAMA Trade Show 2002 (prior to 2002 show)

Best,
Ron

Here is the writeup we did after GTS 2003

http://www.hinterwelt.com/GAMA/GTS2003.pdf

PDF 437 K

Bill

Thanks for the info guys... but my nagging question is, was it worth it? Are these people who were "interested" actually buy/stocking your products? Can a shop like RPGMall actually be of value there when they don't know the ins and outs of all the products? Do we need to invite any and all publishers to the booth?

One other nagging thing is, since Wizard's Attic is history, why haven't people adobted the RPGMall concept quickly? Are they still stinging from the burn they got there? Is Tundra or such even interested in an alternate channel for products?

In other words, all the stuff I read seems like a lot of hot air... anyone got some real results from the show?

James
P.S. I'll probably go anyway as we'd like to hit Vagas next year with the RV, but I'm debating if a booth is the right thing to do.

James,
"Worth it" is a tough one. The Source, a retailer from Minneapolis, was there but they were one of the only Retailers (and they have a small distro business) there. A better comparison would be that all the major (and a few minor) distributors were there. It is a great way to get exposure to a large number of Retailers (and in your case publishers) at one shot. I believe the toughest thing you will face is getting the message of exactly what RPGMall is across. Many of the Retailers will probably just view you as online competition or worse yet an online discounter. This is not the case (mostly) but expressing the way you can help them quickly or for that matter, getting them to even stop at your booth would be difficult.

As for selling outright at the con, I have seen it happen (the game Noir comes to mind but that is dating me 8-D) but is uncommon. The trick to GTS for you, I would think, is to explain the ease that RPGMall works with. The selection of different games and ease of assembly of an order (ala being able to research a game fairly easily) could be selling points as well.

As for slow adoption, I am not sure if you meant retailers or manufacturers. One issue with retailers might be concern about the quality of the games. Right now you have more and more layers of people looking (and rejecting) games before they make it to the distro chain. With RPGMall you more or less can throw your unformatted PDF up and no one will stop you. This is not necessarily bad but it would concern me (back in my retailer days). As for manufacturers, that would be tough. I have no idea why they would not jump on this ASAP. It could be like you say and a case of fear of the old name. I hope they look beyond that because you offer a fine service.

Hope this helps,
Bill

Hello James,

I advise you this: referring to the efforts of others to help you as "hot air" is not going to gain you further advice.

The links I provided have a lot of information in them. If you're not finding answers to your specific questions, then phrase those questions for us now.

The questions you've posed are impossibly vague.

1. No one can tell you whether GTS is "worth it" for you. I've explained in the referenced links what the show is, and why it was valuable for me.

2. Similarly, when you ask why "people" haven't done X or done Y, no one is going to be able to speak for "people" in general. If you're interested in why a particular person hasn't signed up with RPGmall, ask them.

Do not respond to this post with a flip or defensive reply. You're skating on thin ice with me today.

Best,
Ron

The "hot air" comment was meant in reference to many publishers I asked that said "so and so was very interested" and that "so and so store said they'd carry us" ... and yet they don't. It was refering to the RETAILERS not the publishers here. The retailers at a show that happen to say they will support you but turn out to be just blowing a lot of hot air. That was my point. Maybe I wasn't clear but that's what was meant.

Ron, I donno what's got you all bent out of shape. But I certainly don't have to frequent these boards if you feel I'm abusing them or the people on them in any way. Gezz

James

I'll play. We contacted 42 separate retailers giving them cards and receiving likewise. Out of them 34 now carry our product. I cannot be clearer than that. BTW- That was without us having a booth. We would just harangue people in the halls.

Again, I hope this helps,
Bill

Quote from: HinterWeltJames,
"Worth it" is a tough one. The Source, a retailer from Minneapolis, was there but they were one of the only Retailers (and they have a small distro business) there.

Are you sure you are thinking of GAMA Trade Show? I assure you that there were a whole lot more retailers at GTS than the Source. Like hundreds and hundreds of them.

As for the general question of whether one should go to GTS, the answer is yes if you want to sell through the three tier system. It's your best chance to present your products in person to distributors and retailers. If you can't afford to go to Vegas, the Alliance Open House in Fort Wayne is an OK substitute. It's only a weekend and it's within driving distance of a good chunk of the country.

Chris, I should have been more specific. The Source was the only retailer I saw with a booth. Yes, there were supposedly over 300 retailers at GTS in 2003.

Sorry for any confusion,
Bill

James:

This is a moderator post. I'm being public about it to make sure that new posters and - most especially - those offering middleman services, like yourself, can learn some important things about the Forge.

1. No one can read your mind. Reading your post, it says that you've received nothing but hot air, in direct response to several posts and a set of links full of information. Here, what you write is what you write.

2. You can post at the Forge, or not, as you see fit. To threaten "Then I'll just go away!" is both childish and ineffective. It scores no points off me or anyone else.

3. Courtesy is the top priority. Perhaps I should explain what that is - it means, when someone provides information, you respond to acknowledge that you've received it.

Now for my final point: as it happens, I completely agree with you regarding retailers' hot air, especially in regard to GTS and GAMA in general. I also think there are some good retailers out there who can be effectively targeted via the show, given some preparation.

If you bear in mind my above three points, we'll be able to have to have some good discussion about that, and maybe come up with a battle plan for RPGmall to get something good out of the show.

It's up to you to decide whether you're going to beat your head against the wall trying to "win" against my dictatorial attitude, or whether you're going to enter into that discussion.

Best,
Ron

Ron--

Speaking as a not-entirely-disinterested third party (disclosure: I work for James), I think that part of the problem here is that your comment:

QuoteYou're skating on thin ice with me today.

...seemed to come out of nowhere.    I know it did for me, at least.

GMS

Quote from: GMSkarkaSpeaking as a not-entirely-disinterested third party (disclosure: I work for James), I think that part of the problem here is that your comment:

QuoteYou're skating on thin ice with me today.

...seemed to come out of nowhere.    I know it did for me, at least.

Well, I am a disinterested third party, and it did come out of nowhere.  I can't see spot one where James is being disrespectful or discourteous.  This isn't a case of James butting his head against Ron's dictatorial attitude; it's a case of Ron deciding he needs to be a dictator where it's not warranted, because (what he writes is what he writes) he's taking umbrage with a statement that he is inferring was made.  I'm, frankly, stumped by it.  If anyone needs to be taking a step back and a few breaths here, it's Ron.

This thread was well on its way to being useful until it became something with a bunch of unneeded moderation heaped on top of it.  I recommend restarting it; I'm interested, but I'm barely willing to read it for all of the "thin ice" Ron's laying down in front of people.

My two cents.

Hello,

All "Ron is being mean and [whatever]" comments belong in Site Discussion, or in private messages. In fact, I believe it's time for one of those threads in S.D., so head on over.

Continue with the RPGmall and GAMA issue here.

Best,
Ron