Kewl Assassin Powerz

[Sean]

OK, here's a thread which is asking for signifiers which only signify other signifiers, but not at the metatextual level others are pursuing; rather, I want to see if anyone can give me some ideas for the 'Slayer' class in the fantasy heartbreaker I'm working on.

Here are some thoughts: D&D assassins are like thieves, but they can kill stuff better. Also they can fight better and use poisons, and in 3e spells as well. Other power types for assassins include martial arts and psychic stuff.

The question of the thread, which is general, is: what are some interesting power ideas for assassins that haven't been explored? Does anyone know of an interesting take on the assassin/bounty hunter type class that contributes something new to the mix? Right now I'm leaning towards the D&D 'killer thief' model with some nifty martial arts-type abilities thrown in, but I'm looking for other interesting directions to go. And since this is a general question about what kind of powers assassin-type characters might have, I'm putting it in RPG theory.

If Gadamer's (essentially Heideggerian) view of representation as articulated in "Poetry and Mimesis" is correct, it's likely that we shouldn't play assassins. But until we get a definitive judgment about that maybe someone has some ideas.

[Storn]

Disguise, disguise, disguise.

The ninja of reality often looked like farmers and merchants... they had roles to play in order to move through society w/o observation.

Disraeli said (paraphrased): "A diplomat is a honest man sent out to lie for his country".

Think of a high court officer who uses that role to play the assassin.  Acting and social skills are a huge must for such a character.  

If it is a typical dungeon-crawl like adventure stuff... then take the role of a cleric or priest who is actually an assassin... have to work that out with the GM, of course.

[Eero Tuovinen]

The question of the thread, which is general, is: what are some interesting power ideas for assassins that haven't been explored? Does anyone know of an interesting take on the assassin/bounty hunter type class that contributes something new to the mix? Right now I'm leaning towards the D&D 'killer thief' model with some nifty martial arts-type abilities thrown in, but I'm looking for other interesting directions to go. And since this is a general question about what kind of powers assassin-type characters might have, I'm putting it in RPG theory.

A short note, as I'm currently pressed for time: In my own d20 hearbreaker the social function of assassin is filled by the local version of ranger (therites, this being fantasy Greece). The thinking is that the D&D ranger should really have that flanking bonus for damage instead of some stupid spells (which necessiates changing rogue, which necessiates changes in bards... the system doesn't look like D&D anymore). When you add to this the fact that an evil ranger likely has humans as his favourite enemy, it's only sensible to conflate the two concepts as different alignmental sides of the same coin.

Don't know how relevant this is to your work, though. A deeper look some other time, maybe.

[Valamir]

Eero, in the last evil campaign I played in I played an Evil Elf Ranger whose favorite enemy was humans.  In the old AD&D kits there were some Ranger kits that gave some of those bonuses to the class.  I was essentially the sniper of doom.

Sean: two things
First, your assassins don't excite me.  Even Storns note about disguise...doesn't do much.  Quite honestly, a new way to kill someone...yawn.

Second, my idea for what makes an assassin...is will.  Being an assassin is all about having the will to take the life of someone whose never done you any wrong, regardless of whether you like them or not, striking when they least expect it, for reasons not your own.

That's what makes an assassin and assassin.  Any idea of some guild of dagger wielding poison users being what an "assassin" is, is ludicrous to me.  

If you want to make assassins interesting in your game, don't focus on skills and abilities...thats been done a million times and is pretty boring.  Focus on what makes the individual willing to kill without passion or concience.  THAT would be interesting.
IMO, oc.

[Sean]

I agree with you on general principle, Ralph. Something like that would be extremely interesting, and could force players to confront their own thoughts about killing, etc. Maybe a topic for a new thread, or a new game.

The game I'm working on now though is only secondarily and optionally about that kind of issue, though, which is why I started a thread about different kinds of skills and powers for assassin-type characters.

[Jason Lee]

I agree with you on general principle, Ralph. Something like that would be extremely interesting, and could force players to confront their own thoughts about killing, etc. Maybe a topic for a new thread, or a new game.

Bummer... and here I was ready to spout off about assassins that kill their victims during sex for the erotic thrill, and assassins that kill because everything else they try to do with their life goes to shit, and assassins that have been blackmailed into it by threat to a loved one, and so on.

So instead, I guess I'll try to answer the question...

Biological warfare.  Killing of whole households with pox or plague.  Kewl Super Powerz:  vaccination or antibiotics.

Reading the target's fate, and pushing them towards a dark fate.  Then go do something like bump into them and cause them to lose a vital moment in time that would otherwise have kept them from being run over by a carriage.  Can do some sort of god thing with that too.

[anonymouse]

Getting back to the original topic..

What kind of setting are we talking, Sean? D&D fantasy, or what? I always like tying powerz-stuff very tightly to the world, rather than something like "Give them fireballs!" and then coming up with an explaination as to why they can do that.

[Sean]

People hereby have my permission to drift the thread onto any assassin-related topic, just as long as they don't give me grief about what I'm interested in in the process. Especially because the 'kill during sex' and bio-warfare things gave me cool ideas.

The setting? Well, I'm trying to suppress the imagined setting from the rules themselves as much as possible.  (I understand that there are serious drawbacks to this approach. I have reasons, which maybe I'll discuss when I have a beta ready to share with people.) Also, this is an RPG theory thread, so I'm trying to keep things general. But basically, you can think 'science fantasy', of the post-apocalyptic variety, with demons and magic, but no elfy-dwarfy stuff. Tying the assassins to gadgetry in some way might be interesting, I suppose, but I think there are other thematic and game elements both that militate against my taking it that way.

Thanks all of you who have taken the time to respond.

[anonymouse]

Well, "RPG Theory" doesn't mean "discuss everything with a scientist's lexicon and a pair of tongs in a sterile laboratory". =p Nothing wrong with setting details.

So, with the bit of info you (reluctantly?) ponied up, assassins who:

* mystically "tag" a person's soul. usually draws its attention to a demon, who has a tendency to drop in something like a week later and devour the victim whole. or perhaps the demon possesses the body, devouring the original soul and replacing with its own, brought from Hell.

* instead of drawing the attention of the demon, the "tag" instead gives them some kind of horrible karma. the Universe starts to try and destroy the person; slowly at first, and then whole buildings come crashing down around the victim in an effort to wipe them from existance. Assassins as karmic accountants?

hum, post-apocalyptic stuff..

* assassins have some kind of special connection to whatever blew civilisation back to the stone age. I'm thinking like irradiated assassins which spread the blood into a victim, and give them some kind of radiation poisioning.. not super-realistic, but what the hey. Ties into the bio-warfare thing mentioned before.

* the assassins are all demons. There's a Philip K Dick short story, 'We Can Get Them For You Wholesale,' where.. the guy wants to have someone killed, and he calls someone up on the phone he found an ad for. They keep talking him up and up in numbers of people he wants killed. Eventually he capitulates/screws up and asks them to just kill everyone, and it's implied (as the story ends there) that's what the (unknown) "hitmen" were waiting for and terrible things proceed to happen to humanity. maybe most assassins - or a particular assassin guild - is like these demons; they can't kill people unless asked, and when they kill enough people, stuff starts happening. although you're post-apocalypse, so maybe it already did!

Anyway. What I have off the top of my head that isn't super-cliche.

[Trevis Martin]

On the assissins killing with sex thing, I seem to remember something about an assassin who used a two part poison.  One part going to the target and the other going to their lover or the assisin (I can't remember.)  When the two parts combined is when it would take place.

--Trevis

[Halzebier]

D&D assassins are like thieves, but they can kill stuff better. Also they can fight better and use poisons, and in 3e spells as well. Other power types for assassins include martial arts and psychic stuff.

[...]

Right now I'm leaning towards the D&D 'killer thief' model with some nifty martial arts-type abilities thrown in, but I'm looking for other interesting directions to go.

One problem is that the terms "assassin" and especially "ninja" are rarely seen as describing a job or function (such as "fighter" or "wizard"), but as signifying a (fantastically high) level of competence.

"I wanna play a thief." - "I wanna play a sorcerer." - "I wanna play a ninja." - "I wanna play an archmage."

See the difference between the first two and the last two concepts?

Your thoughts are already going in the direction of having a rogue, who fights better than a rogue, uses poison, has some martial arts and special abilities and presumably excellent skills (athletics, stealth, subterfuge) as well.

Extreme competence in relation to the normal world is not a problem (cf. Fengh Shui's ninja), but extreme competence in relation to the other player characters can be (though it doesn't have to be, of course).

Regards,

Hal

[BPetroff93]

Hold on a sec.....what's with the psuedo science BS speak Sean?  Is this a serious post or what?  Second, is this really an RPG theory post?  What exactly are you asking / stating about theory?  Aside from, "Assasinz are kewl!" that is.

[BPetroff93]

Okay Sean,

I read some of your other thread posts and I'm sorry if I jumped down your throat.  However your post reads ALOT like a troll.  The l33t sp33k and heidigger vis a vis proctology and cranial insertion etc etc...

So please forgive my jumping the gun.

[Callan S.]

Destroyer assassin

Basically designed around the idea of eliminating your enemies, by killing all those dear to them, rather than them. The destroyer assassin is skilled at killing dear ones of the target at just the most horifying moments. Sometimes they may kill and disguise themselves as a dear one, only to reveal it at a moral destroying moment.

A lil different.

[Sean]

Some great ideas on this thread. Sorry you thought it was a troll, Brendan. The title and philosophical references in the original post constituted a (perhaps jejune) attempt on my part to inject a bit of levity into the forum.

Hal's point about not wanting to make a 'super-class' is well-taken.

Anonymouse, that stuff is really good. One thing that's really turning me on is equating your #1 and #3 - the mystical 'tag' for demon trouble IS the spreading of irradiated blood - demons smell the (gradually sickening) poison of the apocalypse upon the infected.

Thanks for all the great suggestions, people - hope there are more!