Iron Game Chef -- The Publication!

[Mike Holmes]

Note this is the third post in a row for me - don't miss the previous two.

My concern is about the games being playable. I didn't playtest my game, and though I think it's playable, I haven't any guarantee. I'd love to see Terra Australis in the thing, so long as the purchasers understand that these games are the product of quick and inspired design, rather than drawn-out and playtested design. I'd hate for people to cry foul and review it with "only a third of these are actually playable" comments. Mike, I'm guessing you're covering this angle when you say "they'll know that not all of the games will be stellar." So, if you're covering my concerns with your forward, then awesome.

That's precisely the idea. The forward should make it clear the conditions under which the product was created in it's parts and overall. As such, I think people will rather be impressed with the work provided.

What format are you looking for? Something like the final entry submission? Or would it include the development posts? Technically, what file format & specs (dpi, color range) for the art & writing?

For the text, please try to stick with largely unformated (single column) RTF files. Such that they can all be entered into a layout by somebody else. Again, we'll address art in just a bit.

With a deadline of mid-July, I may be able to get some playtesting in. So how much can it differ from the IGC entry? My current Terra Australis draft is pretty different (cleaner, easier, better, but different) than the original IGC post.

That's cool. As much clean up as you want to do (with the minimum that I specified above). It's your baby.

[Edit: Oops, I see that rawness is encouraged. In that case, I should get the manuscript out in no more than a week. I won't playtest it, I promise!]

I don't think that in the timeframes that we're talking about that anyone will be able to completely iron out the "rawness." So iron to your hearts content. Remember some of the games entered were, in fact, playtested. So do that if you have time. Do whatever you think makes it a better game. Don't worry about overdoing it - like I said, I don't think that'll be a problem.

Mike

[Asrogoth]

Ooo yeah... I'm definitely in!  Mark me down for a copy regarldess.

Oh, and I'll be posting a thread shortly regarding my game.  I just finished my last paper of the semester and will have a little time to kill.

As always,
Asrogoth

PS For legal purposes:
I wholeheartedly endorse the idea of allowing my creation "God Lore: The Chronicles of the Immortals" role-playing game to be included in this compilation to be made by the Forge retaining all rights and privileges of ownership of the aforementioned intellectual property.

[C. Edwards]

I'd just like to point out there were fewer entries in the first two IGC competitions put together than there were in this one.

Enough to make a seperate volume? Depends on how many people sign on.

-Chris

[Dav]

Mike:  I think we can safely nix the treasure-hunting game from the hearts and minds of all people.

To Everyone: All entries in the IGC are acceptable.  There is no true space issue, so people don't have to worry about being bumped for other games.  If you submitted a game to the Fantasy IGC, you are eligible and desired for participation.

As to how the games read and play: this is more Mike's purview, so I elave that to him.  

As to how they appear: well... I want them generally in a Word, Pagemaker, or similar application (I have complete control and access to a Kinko's, and thus, if you use a dreaded Mac or some odd file type, I will be able to make it go).  As for art: 300 DPI max, 72 DPI min.  B&W.  As I mentioned before, I strongly suggest no more than a cover or opening piece and a character sheet.  These should be in jpg, (irk) bmp, or psp (or whatever photoshop is calling their format nowadays).

You can send me a manuscript with text with headings where you want them... I'll make it pretty with fonts and layout from there.  (Well, I probably won't, but my minions will)

Sometime Monday I will be stealing all of Walt's hard work on the index thread and transferring its contents here, with those who have given permission, denied permission, or not given permission listed.  That way, it all begins to make sense.

And, of course, I will be saddened greatly if the winner and runners-up do not participate.

Dav

[Simon W]

If previous IGC entries are to be considered, I'm in, even if it means going for a separate volume as Chris suggested. I'm sure there were some equally good games there as there are in the Fantasy IGC. I can see though, that you may be concerned about time constraints and so on as you have a definate release date in mind.

[hanschristianandersen]

Mike, Dav,

First of all, I almost missed this thread entirely, because I don't normally read the "Connections" forum.  I would recommend doing a brief announcement post in Indie Game Design that links here.

Talk about above and beyond the call of duty!  This is going to be a wonderful publication.  Jack had better get some kickass illustrations in for Chanter.  I want Chanters in ceremonial regalia!  I want duels to the death!  I want a panoramic shot of the sloping egg-shaped skyline, with the sun triumphantly hovering overhead!

Or, if you only want 1 big illustration per game, just make it a picture of a duel to the death between two Chanters in ceremonial regalia, with the sloping egg-shaped skyline in the background, and the sun triumphantly hovering overhead.

*ahem*.

You absolutely have permission to include Snow Day in this collection.  I have some very minor edits in mind (re-order some of the rules, do a top-to-bottom grammar sweep), but the game is basically complete as far as I'm concerned.  I'll try to have a tidied-up draft done within the next few days - I need to get Snow Day done and put aside so that I can get back to Musketeers! and Memories Of Earth.

[Jack Aidley]

I'm in.

[Eero Tuovinen]

A question that occurred to me: is there layout guidelines, or can the games be laid out differently? I'm asking because my preferred way of writing rules text is highly regimented, with sidebars and boxed text galore. I'll have to take it into account if I'll be structuring the text with some limitations in mind. In that vein, what size publication are we talking here? How many columns? Any technical limitations due to press conditions?

All in all I'd like it if there were some common features to the games, at least a somewhat similar layout and some structural common points. I'm planning on including a short "comments from the designer" box in the text, as an example, detailing some key thoughts on the game in question and telling about possible future development. Something like that could be included in every submission.

Has it been decided who gets to write the introduction? Mike is a logical choice, but a twist is always possible, like with comic books that get introduced by creditable outsiders. Ron, for example...

As can be perceived, I like metastructure in publications. I hope I'll get a chance to comment on the layout and details of covers, cover texts, introductions and such ;)

I started a thread on my triad of games to get some handle on what I'm doing to them for the publication. Feel free to check it out.

[Lxndr]

"No Press" was decided in the NPA threads as sort of an unofficial official "publishing imprint."  In theory, if the NPA I does well, there will be an NPA II and so forth.

Would there be any harm in, well, appropriating the "imprint" for this project as well?  Sort of making the "No Press" imprint the "unofficial official" imprint of such Forge-related community publishing projects?  Such that this might be the "No Press IGC Fantasy" or somesuch?

Or is that just stupid?

[Eero Tuovinen]

Would there be any harm in, well, appropriating the "imprint" for this project as well?  Sort of making the "No Press" imprint the "unofficial official" imprint of such Forge-related community publishing projects?  Such that this might be the "No Press IGC Fantasy" or somesuch?

Or is that just stupid?

Not at all, I at least like it. Brand development and recognition is crucial in today's marketplace, to use a catchphrase. I like the vision of building a noncomformist publishing house around indie ideals and Forge activists.

"No Press anthology" is nicely complemented by "No Press Iron Games", if the owner of the imprint allows. Who ever is the owner?

Of course, by making it a brand, we would undermine the original purpose of there not being a brand, if I remember the discussions around NPA. Probably someone's other than me is better qualified to comment on this.

[Dav]

Mike is writing the introduction for the game.  He started the IGC, he's the king, he gets his words in.

Also, Alexander: regarding making the IGC a No Press publication... Mike and I have talked a bit about this, and one of the few things I wanted to do on the published version was slap the Unfortunate Destinies logo on it.  I'm going to be bearing the print costs for the project (such as they are), so I figured it wasn't a long stretch.  However, I really don't have a problem with somehow working the NPA or No Press label in to some aspect of the publication.

Eero: As for general layout, figure a two-column format.  As I said, I will be handling all the layout and design work across the board.  If you want to include your own sidebars and boxes, that's largely fine.  Each game will have a universal border, and a few other identifying characteristics, but pinning me down as to what it will look like when finished ain't gonna work until I have the collected manuscripts in my hands.  If you want to, I'd be happy to work with you more closely when it comes time to begin the layout and production.  Right now, I just honestly can't be all that specific.

Dav

[Shreyas Sampat]

A formatting and a logistics question:

By what date would you like to have the manuscripts by?

I have some bullet-lists and things in my piece, and have a basically complete HTML-formatted version. Are things like bullet lists okay?

[Dav]

Shreyas:  Yes, bullet-points and minor formattings such as this are fine.

I'm setting the official due date for finished manuscripts by at July 8th.  

This is, of course, when *I* need them for layout and printing.  Therefore, Mike will have to have the editing done by then.  Therefore, I am uncertain how much lead time he wants for the editing work, but he can work backwards from there to set a date that he wants the final edit copy sent to him by.  I would anticipate a couple of weeks for editing, therefore, expect to have to get your stuff to Mike by late June.

Dav

[Ben Lehman]

I'd like to briefly question this publication... This is not to say that I don't want my game involved, if it happens (because I think it should be as complete as possible) but rather because it changes the nature of the Iron Chef contests from a rather casual endeavor to something more formal, and also may very well give a bad image to the Forge.

I think that the relevant quote comes from the "24-hour games" thread, although I can't find it right now (blasted search feature, you are my eternal nemesis!)  It essentially comes down to "'Here are a bunch of games we threw together for a contest, now buy them' is not necessarily a good public face for the Forge, nor is it necessarily an exciting RPG product."

Worth considering, at least.

A secondary concern is that this might dilute the impact of the No-Press RPG anthology by causing some confusion and conflation of opinion between the two books.  Which would be a shame, because this is really just draft copies, whereas the other is (one game excepted) finished and professional games.  Both cool anthologies, but very different contents.

Just some thoughts.  I'm in the middle of Polaris editing right now, although if this book comes off I'll have to decide how to hold back and how much to include.

yrs--
--Ben

[Dav]

Ben spake like so:
"I think that the relevant quote comes from the "24-hour games" thread, although I can't find it right now (blasted search feature, you are my eternal nemesis!) It essentially comes down to "'Here are a bunch of games we threw together for a contest, now buy them' is not necessarily a good public face for the Forge, nor is it necessarily an exciting RPG product." "


I respond as such:
"Honestly, Ben (and anyone else wondering), I couldn't give a flying shit less about how anything appears to anyone... ever.  BUT, I just want to say this: the Forge has a public face... it is a friggin' website that is open and available to the public!  Besides this, if you ever had a chance to hear me speak, you would realize that my involvement does nothing to make things more formal.  I'm the least formal guy you'll ever find.

I really think that quite a few people running about the Forge have their panties in a twist over some perceived notion that the Forge has/needs/wants some image or street-cred thing.  It doesn't.  The Forge is a place where people come to wax poetic about gaming, and I'm even leaving off the "indie" bit, as many a-time, the games discussed aren't even indie.  Look, if people want to prevent formalization of anything, I'm all for it.  I REALLY cannot stand wading through mores and rules and codes of conduct (who woulda guessed?), so why don't we start by deformalizing the notions of those who participate at the Forge?  Seriously, "too formal"?  Have you looked around the Forge lately?  All we GOT is formal!  Policies and guidelines and this-is-right-this-ain'ts and regulations and how-to's and how-definitely-not-to's...  Publishing the IGC ain't gonna change a thing... it won't make things better, it won't make things worse.  It just will be.  

As I look things over, I realize I am losing the focus of the topic here... Back to the subject:  Mike, who started the IGC at the Forge, said he likes the idea.  To me, since he started it, he is the beginning and end.  Me, I think the Forge as a whole could use a serious overhaul, and the IGC was the first things in a long time that seemed to spark some creative life around here.  It's a good thing.

As for people questioning the "should we" of the IGC publication: seriously, that's making much ado about nothing.  You kids are thinking too hard about all the wrong stuff.  Besides... it's going to happen, too late to question."

Dav