Combat Strategies

[haunted]

I've just read through the core rule book and I must say that I'm really excited about taking the game out for a test spin.

Like most newbies, I'm still trying to get my head around combat. I've been playing the combat simulator, which has helped me understand the rules--and has even gotten me thinking about strategy, which brings me to my questions.

[list=1]   [*]What are some good strategies for survivng or winning combat when your opponent is stronger and tougher than you are and you have no choice but to fight?
   
   [*]What are some good strategies/maneuver combinations in general?[/list:o]
I ask the first question for two reasons:

[list=1]   [*]I want to kill the giant in the combat simulator and it seems that no matter who I pit him against, he always wins.
   
   [*]I want to be prepared should this come up and my character has no way to escape[/list:o]
I apologize if either of these topics have been raised in the past. I've poked around in the forum, but haven't found anything.

TIA,
Rick

[nsruf]

From my limited experience so far, the following are good choices:

1) When in doubt, use full evade.

2) If you are on the offense, make sure that your attack poses a credible threat. Or your opponent may simply ignore you and attack back without even buying initiative.

3) If you have a shield, simultaneous block/strike from a defensive position is an extremely powerful maneuver.

4) If your opponent attacks with a lot of dice and your CP is full or almost full, countering with everything you have may be a good idea. If you win but your opponent has many successes, you can skewer him with the bonus dice alone.

Because of 3) and 4), I actually prefer fighting from a defensive position.

[Sir Mathodius Black]

One thing to always keep in mind is to ALWAYS play conservatively unless you are vastly superior to your opponent.  Remember, a reckless player might beat the Giant, but if that giant even so much as scratches you, your gonna be hurting for a long time to come...

What i tend to do when up against a superior opponent is to simply use the cheapest and simplest defense until he makes a mistake, such as using his entire combat pool on one attack.  If he does that, and you save some of your CP, a well placed (and lucky) hit might be able to injure him.

One of the best strategies ive seen so far is simply in character creation, which is to always try to have a decent reflex and a good sized combat pool, which usually means going lighty armored or not armored at all.  (This is, of course, unless youre goal is to play a knight or something).  Assuming your character idea allows for no armor and a high reflex, the duck and weave move can be a godsend.  Be careful, however, because, since it has a fairly high TN (8 or 9 i believe), it is easy to screw up and if you do your toast.

[Eric J-D]

You wrote:

1.  I want to kill the giant in the combat simulator and it seems that no matter who I pit him against, he always wins.

Welcome to the club (pun very much intended)!  At first glance, this is not going to appear like combat advice, but in TROS it is.  You'll never beat the giant unless you have multiple SAs firing away like pistons.  This is the secret to all successful combat in my opinion.  So, think about ways that you can bring those SAs into play or stay away.  Of course, the combat simulator, fine as it is, doesn't include this as a feature so you'll have to wait until an actual in-game situation to see how this works.

Finally, numbers and terrain all need to be kept in mind as well.

Cheers,

Eric

[Turin]

I've tried beating the giant on the combat sim a few times.  It seems the best bet is with someone like Hef, a long pole arm or pike (as Hef has) and letting the Giant go first, then putting all available dice into an attack vs the giants attack, using just enough dice to buy initiative (have not quite figured out how many will generaly do this).  Hopefully you have enough sucesses to cause an appreciable wound, if not your toast.

[Sir Mathodius Black]

Also, one thing to keep in mind is that there are simply some situations where you cant win and you need to run.  And even worse, but still very possible, is a situation where you cant win or run or bargain your way out of a fight, in which case, well...i think you know the rest.  

And, of course, theres my preferred method of doing things, which is: either use a bow so you dont have to even be face to face with your enemy, or simply kill him when his back is turned.  Yes, its dirty, sneaky, and all around dishonorable, but when your lifes on the line, i prefer dishonor over death.

[Tash]

One tactic I've found quite useful is  a full (or large portion of dice) to the hands dring the first exchange.  Far more often than not this cripples my opponent enough that I can easily finish them.

[bottleneck]

[list=1]   [*]I want to kill the giant in the combat simulator and it seems that no matter who I pit him against, he always wins.
   
   [*]I want to be prepared should this come up and my character has no way to escape[/list:o]

1) Let that be a lesson: Never ever fight a giant alone! (unless he is sleeping).

Imagine you asked the original question the other way around: Are there any good tactics for beating a vastly inferior foe that has no chance of escaping? Answer: yes! (anything except stupidity and bad luck combined - so to beat him you must be smarter _and_ lucky. Those are bad odds, you do not ever want bad odds in tRoS).

With 5-6 archers on your side, you even the odds a bit, though.

2) Part two of the lesson: Always have an escape route.

Try distract-and-flee, bribery, surrender, or let your (soon-to-be late) friend cover for you while you run like a chicken. (Do not wait for your allies to get killed: get that head start _now_).

In the combat sim, I have a feeling the giant is included to teach you that some combats will just be stupid to enter.
In 'real life' (the game), the giant will have a motivation for fighting - if it's self-defence then stop threathening him and run; if it's hunger - let him have someone else; if the giant is on a personal crusade to get you, you shouldn't have been nearby in the first place.

[toli]

You have two choices, IMHO, against the giant...


1. all out attack to the groin
2. run like hell....

If you have enough CP and have initiative, 1 does work.....some times...

[Bankuei]

Hi,

I don't know about the simulator, but as far as the actual pen and paper game goes:

-Never underestimate the value of terrain rolls.

I'd run for cover, make it hard for the bastard to find me, hit or stomp me.  Trees, rocks, hopefully a cave or something.  Maybe you can get him to trip or stumble, or twist an ankle for you.

-Friends.  

As mentioned before, lots of friends help.  Arrows and pikes would be my recommendation.

-Mounts

A lance to the leg has GOT to suck.  Groin for bonus points.  If you have something...meatier, such as a elephant, just ram the bastard

-SAs

As always, Spiritual Attributes make all the difference in the world.

-Traps

If you are well prepared, its time to do the Ewok Tactics and roll logs, tiger pits, apply boiling oil to the bastards toes, whatever you can do.

Chris

[Phoenix]

I dont know about the simulator, but I would use sorcery. Sorcery is a mean, bad, meanbad thing. Turn his guts into snakes, make his eyes rot out, cause him to have a brain annurism. Or do that rapier of bones thingie...I love that spell.

[Mike Holmes]

Actually, I think that the giant is in the simulator for a very important reason - to teach that you can't defeat such an opponent without SAs. That is, if you've determined that you can't beat the giant, without SAs, then the simulator has done its job. You should never fight a giant without a ton of SAs firing. Others have pointed this out, but I wanted to make the point that the simulator isn't somehow "wrong" for having an unbeatable foe in it. I think it's a design feature of a program meant to instruct in how to play.

Uh, it occurs to me that this lesson is something like the Kobayashi Maru from Star Trek fame. :-)

Mike

[Sir Mathodius Black]

Well, i just ran a new character im playing through the combat sim and he whooped the giant in 3 turns.  The character is nothing exceptional, hes stahlnish, 7 st, 6 ag, 6 to, and 7 prof points in the greatsword.  Hes got a chain shirt, leather covering his arms and legs, and a fine full helm.  I began with my character in aggressive stance and the giant in defensive, i took a swing with my greatsword down vertical and put all dice into it.  I had the giant put his 10 dice into evasion, and i got a level one wound.  Next round i swung for his midsection, and he only had 5 dice from the shock, and i gave his a deep puncture wound.  Third round he was helpless and i smashed his skull.
Now, I have yet to run the scenario using different tactics, but this one seemed to work for me...

[Sir Mathodius Black]

I ran the sim using other strategies and basically if you can stay on the offensive and not let the giant hit you by forcing him to spend his cp on defense, you can win with a little bit of luck.  If you let the giant take a swing, however, your almost certainly toast.

[James Buchanan]

I don't see any reason why the Giant would take a defensive stance.

He has toughness enough to go offensive heedlessly and the way he does damage, he only needs to hit you once, even if he does take a hit himself.

For a cheezy way to beat him, go flail/morningstar and shield.

Use the Block Open and Strike maneuver, then bap him with the flail or morningstar. This allows you to commit heavily to defence, and not compromise your offence.

There's a small bug in the program which causes you to inflict the +4 blood loss even on a level 0 wound. With enough blood loss, even the mightiest Giant will fall ;)

Seriously, next time play the giant agressively and see how well you do.

-James