[GroupDesign] Schrodinger's war: Feel of Play

[Tobias]

Ladies in Gentlemen, this thread is about why the GroupDesign game Schrodinger's War is cool. What does it feel like to play?

For instance, why are all you contributing? What do you expect to get out of it, as a player?

Not very much has been said on this topic, so I'll let everyone free to roam here. Please do keep in mind that there are some mechanics floating out there already - let's not re-build the game, unless we discover the mechanics do not really suit the game we all think would be cool to play.

[daMoose_Neo]

Why I'm contributing:
I'm a huge fan of story- not so much mechanics, but I love a good story and I love being able to craft one.
I've seen some awesome stuff crop up here and some neat concepts I think will make for awesome play.

What I want as a player:
I can see this as being a very enjoyable system.
The theoretical play examples thus far seem like the system is leaning towards a simpler way to play, which is awesome, less number crunching than normal. Theme is also followed quite heavily in the rules, which is again awesome.
Personally, I'm liking the idea of being a Rouge Archivist, walking that little bit of an edge between whats "Right" and whats "Correct".

[Sydney Freedberg]

What does it feel like to play?...What do you expect to get out of it, as a player?

Shocking revelations. Crazy wire-fu action. NPCs you really start to care about. Staring your arch-enemy in the face through the driving rain and realizing: "You might have been me." And above all, gut-wrenching dilemmas: I want a tempo that keeps accelerating until -- WHAM -- you slam up against the moment of decision with the realization: "I can finally do this -- but at the price of that. So what am I willing to sacrifice?"*

And maybe, just maybe, once in a while, you find a way to reconcile the opposites without sacrificing either.

{* EDIT: Hey, there's a capital-P Premise: "What will you sacrifice to save the world?"}

{EDIT 2: Oh yeah -- and I want all this sound and fury to end something like a cross between It's a Wonderful Life and my favorite Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode, "The Zeppo." In both cases, after the drama is done, the protagonists look around and realize they've made the world a better, brighter place -- but no one else notices: They're too busy going about the ordinary, happy lives you made possible. Cue ending theme music and quiet smiles of satisfaction.}

[Nathan P.]

I've been dipping in to see it every so often (not enough time to read through every thread, I'm afraid). And it's cool. But sorry if I misinterpret something or use the wrong terminology, or something.

If I were to play, I'd be interested in sticking with one Host, but going to different points in their life. Jumping around and trying to follow the causal chain. I'd be into a sense of being on my own when I'm "in the field", but having the option to bail out. Dramatic tension = narrowing of that chance to bail out when there's a crisis.

I want to sit around in the Great Library and think deep thoughts with my Archivist buddies before screaming out into the time tunnels to go monkeywrench some Darchivist badness.

I want to feel pity for the poor host because they're not me, but jealousy because he has things I never will.

I want to be flabbergasted that things didnt work out when I worked so hard to get them right, and then find out that there's a  nefarious plot fucking with me. Then I want to kick some righteous ass, in whatever way necessary.

[Andrew Morris]

I think one of the core sensations of play should be nervous tension, much like gambling. How much will you risk, knowing that it might or might not pay off?

Ideally, I'd also like to see it have some moral impact. If I (the player) genuinely feel bad about scewing over a host, I'll know we succeeded.

As to what I get out of participating in the project...well, I guess it's what I get out of playing chess -- it's just fun. As to why it's fun...hell, I don't know, maybe it's simply the challenge of it. Maybe it's artistic creation. Maybe it's working with other creative folks to build something greater than what any one of us could put together on our own. Maybe it's some or all of those in conjunction.

[Sydney Freedberg]

Maybe it's working with other creative folks to build something greater than what any one of us could put together on our own.

Amen!

[hix]

I don't know exactly which thread to post this in, but "Schrodinger's War" makes me want to find out more about this game. Good title, people.

From the title, the feel of the game I get is:
1) Tense. The odds are against us.
2) Crazy reality-bending stuff happening.
3) ... I guess from "Schrodinger" that there are 2 options/outcomes to most situations, one good and one bad.

Anyway, that's the observations of an extremely casual observer. Keep it up.

[contracycle]

3) ... I guess from "Schrodinger" that there are 2 options/outcomes to most situations, one good and one bad.

Er, not as yet but thats an excellent point.  Hmm.

[Doug Ruff]

3) ... I guess from "Schrodinger" that there are 2 options/outcomes to most situations, one good and one bad.

Or one bad and one worse...

As for what I want to get out of the game? Pretty much all of the above, which is very fortunate!

In addition to this (because I'm demanding) I want to see some real moral debate about some Big Questions. Is it better to freeze history in its tracks (because we may be able to do that) or to revel in the infinite potential of the future, and risk destroying Creation? Is it right to knowingly hurt an innocent if it makes life better for many other people? What price Liberty? or Victory?

This doesn't mean that the players have to sit down and debate this (we may need to, though.) But there should always be an awareness that every action you take has moral consequences, and you'd better be willing to face up to them.

[TonyLB]

3) ... I guess from "Schrodinger" that there are 2 options/outcomes to most situations, one good and one bad.

Or one bad and one worse...

Or two good, really good, vitally important outcomes, only one of which you can achieve.  A cure for old age or colonization of the galaxy, but not both.

[Kirk Mitchell]

*Looks at entire thread*

...I AGREE...

Pretty much everyone has mirrored my sentiments. Especially Doug when he says:

In addition to this (because I'm demanding) I want to see some real moral debate about some Big Questions. Is it better to freeze history in its tracks (because we may be able to do that) or to revel in the infinite potential of the future, and risk destroying Creation? Is it right to knowingly hurt an innocent if it makes life better for many other people? What price Liberty? or Victory?

This doesn't mean that the players have to sit down and debate this (we may need to, though.) But there should always be an awareness that every action you take has moral consequences, and you'd better be willing to face up to them.

Damn right.

Luck,
Kirk

[daMoose_Neo]

I want a tempo that keeps accelerating until -- WHAM -- you slam up against the moment of decision with the realization: "I can finally do this -- but at the price of that. So what am I willing to sacrifice?"*

I know 'Butterfly Effect' came up earlier, and as a science or use of the actual Effect it was pure crockery, but that post made it spring to mind even more- for those who haven't seen it, Sydney's post sums up the story fairly well- guy goes through hell all his life, gets the chance to change it, and does...and it doesn't get any better. The same things happen until he finally realizes what it is that has to change but it is an incredible sacrifice, much like how we're designing the game to act/react.

I suggest we work up a list of movies or shows that would be good resources (or just something to get us thinking in that mindset/mood)
To start it, I'd recommend:

1) Butterfly Effect, for the reasons stated above (also get the DVD for the directors ending if you can, THAT will warp some braincells)

2) Wonderful Life, I think everyone has seen it, but given the time of year its not so hard to sit down with the family and watch it one evening.

3) Frequency, with Dennis Quaid. Excellent example of many of the mechanics and ideas we're discussing.

4) Quantum Leap. Sit down one day if you can and watch it on the Sci-Fi Channel if you haven't. Another great example of something akin to Archivist-in-Host-time. According to our game terms the Host is totally 'supressed', but its still a decent look at time travel and another Entity inhabiting another's time and body.

5) The Buffy Ep Syd mentioned. Actually, many sci-fi shows have that kind of thing.

I know theres more out there. Any other ideas?

[Sydney Freedberg]

Good list of things to watch -- and darn it, I've not seen Frequency or Butterfly Effect. Rental time...

Similarly: at least the climactic scene of the first Bill & Ted movie (the only part of either one I've watched), because of tactical use of time travel to retroactively make sure you win.

[Andrew Morris]

Well, I think everyone should read the Lensman series (Triplanetary, First Lensman, Galactic Patrol, Gray Lensman, Second Stage Lensman, and Children of the Lens). In addition to being an amusing read (crazy aliens, pirates, space marines, etc.) it deals with how an immensely powerful race can help a less powerful race develop to the point where it can defend itself.  And well, sure, it's got some flaws -- men are all manly, women are objects, astronomical data for faster-than-light travel are recorded on reel-to-reel tapes, etc. -- but it was written 70 years ago, so that's to be expected.

I've never seen it, but the movie The Final Countdown is said to be an examination of the morality of interfering with the timstream, even to do "good" things. Oh, and A Sound of Thunder should be coming out soon. This is based on Ray Bradbury's book (short story? hmm...can't remember) of the same title.

[BlueDanube]

Very interesting set of threads. Big thank you to everybody for a fun read. Here's some short stories I'd put on the recommended reading list:

Fritz Leiber, "Try and Change the Past" - Great example of a very hard to change timeline, this should almost be required reading. Also covers how Archivists could be recruited & how history fixes itself. Written in the 1950s I think.

More recently, Tony Daniel, "A Dry, Quiet War" - Nemesis as the end of the universe.

Roger Zelazny, "Damnation Alley" - What kind of stuff can happen if you can wander through time?

I remember another short story, not sure of author or title (maybe Heinlein or Azimov), with a very easy to change timeline. Basically, people went on hunting trips to shoot dinosaurs, stepped on a butterfly, and changed the world they returned to.

- Dan T