[New Game, New Designer] My first steps into the pool

[Andrew Morris]

Like Trevis said, there's no "wrong foot" issue here. People don't post just to put someone down or anything like that. If you ask for feedback, the only people who are going to respond are ones that want to help provide that feedback in some way. It might be positive or negative, but it's all there to help you.

Eric, I wouldn't call the Schrodinger's War design goals tertiary, but they certainly have changed, both in form and importance, over the course of the project. For example, one of the original goals was to not use dice, but that went out the window at some point. That goes back to my earlier statement that, while design goals are important and should be looked at regularly, the core concepts and themes for your game are a different matter entirely.

Mark, Eric makes a good point about trying other games. Also, Mike's rants really are a great source of information, especially #1. So, check out Alacrity, because it sounds like it might suit most or at least some of your needs. If not, it should give you a starting point. Oh, and it's a free game, too.

[ErrathofKosh]

Well, take a peek at Rolemaster, but don't look too long, because you could be swallowed whole. :)  Seriously though, when you say percentile system, I think RM. Warning: it is long and detailed and expensive, so I suggest either finding someone who already owns it or perusing it while at a game store.

Another interesting one that I haven't had a chance to play is Exiles.  Go to www.mimgames.com for that one.  It's even free!

Edit: Click on "The Madness" link to take you to the games...

[MarkMeredith]

Oh yeah! I forgot Cthulhu. Okay, here's the games I've been exposed to, just to show that I'm not completely sheltered.

D&D (D20)
Star Wars (D6 & D20)
Generic D6 by WEG
Inquisitor (% system)
GURPS (D666)
In Nomine (D666)
RISUS (The simplest RPG ever!)
Burning Wheel
Call of Cthulhu (% system)
Mutants & Masterminds (D20)
Everyone is Bob (I saw it on the internet somewhere)
World of Darkness/Vampire

And... I think that's it.
I'll try to figure out the theme. Thanks.

[Trevis Martin]

I just got Orbit from my FLGS last week and it has an interesting little percentile based system that I rather like.  

You have your attributes number and your skills provide a multiplier to get your final percentile target number (roll under)

For example (I don't have the book with me so I'm making this up)  You have an agility of say 30.  You have an actobatics skill of one of four levels, something like Familiar (x1), Competent (x1.5), Expert (x2) and Master (x3)
You multiply your stat by your skill level and there is your TN.  So if you are a master acrobat in this case you would have a roll under target of 90%

(Now I can't remember what stat numbers really look like but its somewhere around there.)

There is a breif lite rules version on the website in the downloads section.

The added stuff in the results is what makes it really fun thugh, Gonzo success and Gonzo failure have several options, one of which is to give narration to the player.

best,

Trevis

[MarkMeredith]

I like that! I'll have to consider a system like that...

[MarkMeredith]

Here are my Design Goals:
1) To create a generic fun game system that can be bought on the cheap and is simple enough to be staplebound.
2) Multiple supplements for different Genres.
3) Questions asked of the player to determine the main character's starting Attributes
4) A percentile system (Roll low) that is easy to grasp
5) A Belief-like system that aids in the GM's scenario-making process ("Oh, you believe that? Well do you still, when THIS happens?")
6) A mechanic that allows Players to influence the track of the game (Fate)
7) A Mechanic for Destiny (I have no idea how this would work)

Okay, it looks like for me to really pull off what I want (a truly generic fun system that can be picked up for a fistfull of dollars at your local Game Shop) I'll need to come up with multiple Concepts to have in other supplemental books that support the main text (I may also have one of these at the end of the Core Book so that you can get started right away).
Here's some concepts for play.

Fantasy World: All mages are blind psychics, and have been driven into hiding. Human only world, but with creatures that watch over them (I'm talking non-incorporeal creatures that can do things like walk on leaves while still attached to trees, the most graceful creatures in the world)

Sci-Fi Setting: Humanity has built false wormholes to reach out into the stars. They have just made first contact. Corporations run everything, and the government is a sham, run by various companies that control them. Weapons are ballistics wrapped in energy.

Horror: No Rest For The Wicked. A sort of "Route 666" rpg with things not being as they seem. Half the government and corporations are ancient creatures that have been biding their time.

MIB: The aliens are among us. Based on the stories of the Men In Black (not the movie, the guys who actually show up at your door), you discover the truth about everything that's always seemed a little off...

These are just samples. They have a lot of kinks that have to be worked out. The game system as a whole would be about exploring what is real and what isn't. Knowing who you can trust, and exploring the struggles and doubts your characters have. Anything else? I could use help going from here.

[Sydney Freedberg]

Mark, I know your pain. I was working on a game design on and off for years, thought it was almost finished, stumbled on the Forge looking for ideas, and -- BOOM -- my idea exploded. I ended up throwing everything out and starting over.

I'm not familiar with everything on your list of games, but despite their variety, I think all of them, with the partial exception of Burning Wheel depending on which edition it is, share the following four characteristics -- as did my defunct game idea, for that matter:

1. A single, powerful Game Master.

2. Lots of detailed, strict rules for combat and magic/superpowers, a few loose rules for everything else.

3. Dice. There are games that use cards, and games that use straight numerical comparisons with no chance, and games with no numbers at all.

4. "Task resolution" instead of "conflict resolution." This is really tricky to explain, but in oversimplified essence:
- Task resolution is "I want to hit him with my sword. I roll - I hit - he's hurt! Okay, so am I winning or losing? Let's figure out how all these specific actions add up to the overall result I really care about."
- Conflict resolution is "I want to win the fight - I roll - I win! Okay, so did I hit him with my sword or scare him away or what? Let's figure out how the overall result I really care about is expressed in specific actions."

Ron Edwards' Trollbabe is a good example of how to do (2) and (4) differently, and it's got a sneaky way of subverting (1). It's ten lousy bucks for the PDF, so I'd start here.
Tony Lower-Basch's Capes and Ralph Mazza's & Mike Holmes's Universalis blow away (1) -- everybody's a GM at once -- and (2), plus they do a job on (4).
Vincent Baker's Dogs in the Vineyard looks like a traditional RPG on all counts, complete with four-sided dice and blow-by-blow descriptions and a strong GM, but.... well, it screws with (1), (2) and (4) in a very cool way.

(3), the dice thing? Eh. No really cool examples off the top of my head. But it's actually not that important compared to the others, actually.

Yes, whether you use die or don't is not really important. You did read that right.

[Eric Provost]

I'm just gonna pop in on your examples for Conflict Resolution vs. Task Resolution Sydney.  Not that I wanna get into that conversation here, but it does seem that your example implies that Conflict Resolution does the same thing as Task Resolution, but narrows it down to one roll of the dice.

Forgive us if we get into some debate over the defination of Conflict Resolution vs. Task resolution around you, Mark, as it's kind of a hot topic right now.

If I were to sum up the difference, I'd say that a Conflict Resolution system allows for the player to state pretty much any goal they'd like before the dice hit the table, and if the dice go in the player's favor then they've reached their goal without needing any GM interpretation.  Whereas a Task Resolution system tells the player just what kinds of tasks his character can achieve and leaves it up to the GM to decide if Success In Task = Success In Goal.

But that's just my interpretation, others will certainly vary.   Like I said, it's a hot topic right now.

-Eric

[TonyLB]

(3) Nobilis and Everway.

[Sydney Freedberg]

By the way, of the Design Goals you mentioned, these....

Here are my Design Goals:
[snip]
3) Questions asked of the player to determine the main character's starting Attributes
[snip]
5) A Belief-like system that aids in the GM's scenario-making process ("Oh, you believe that? Well do you still, when THIS happens?")
6) A mechanic that allows Players to influence the track of the game (Fate)
7) A Mechanic for Destiny (I have no idea how this would work)
[snip]

... these are freakin' cool.

[MarkMeredith]

You think so? Thanks! That's great because I really like those additions to the game plan. I'm carrying a notepad around with me, jotting ideas down. I kinda like the idea about all players being the GM (Inquisitor can be played this way sometimes). But I also love GMing when I've got a good group around me. As far as no-dice... I'm a big fan of the "clickety-clack". I play Warhammer (case in point). Anyway, anyone have any additional Design goals that may be a good idea that would match my current ones?
With each genre, I'd have a bunch of new Special Abilities that would match the genre. Anyway...

[Trevis Martin]

Hey Mark,

The game system as a whole would be about exploring what is real and what isn't. Knowing who you can trust, and exploring the struggles and doubts your characters have.

This is the kinda thing I was looking for.  Somehow you need some mechanism to help focus the game around those kinds of issues.  Trust, for example is the focus of another game (which should be out by GenCon, Tim?) called The Mountain Witch.  Players all play ronin Samurai trying to kill the Witch of Mount Fuji.  You can look at the original Iron Game Chef verson of the game.

As for exploring what is real and what isn't, I'll think on that one.  Anybody got any game suggestions for that?

best,

Trevis

[MarkMeredith]

Okay, here's the the Base Attributes that everything else draws off of:
Might (Your general brute strength)
Fortitude (Your physical toughness)
Vitality (Your general health and well-being. Fort and Vit will be averaged off to make your actual Hit Points, if I decide to go with the HP system)
Acuity (Your knowledge about the world around you)
Perception (Your Awareness of the world around you)
Resolve (Your mental strength, or willpower)
Intuition(This aids in everyone's "Sixth Sense")

Some people will say that Fortitude and Vitality are the same thing, and should be condensed. But I've seen plenty of beefy football players who always have colds. Also, Intuition and Perception may seem the same, but I know that I can be sort of tunnel-visioned, but I'm usually right when I have a "bad feeling" about things. What do you think?

[ffilz]

If you game is about:

The game system as a whole would be about exploring what is real and what isn't. Knowing who you can trust, and exploring the struggles and doubts your characters have.

Do you need to break down the physical attributes at all? Think about how your attributes will play into differentiating what is real and what isn't (and perhaps there is room for physical attributes - perhaps if someone tells you it's a mile from here to there, and you run it, and you're not tired, then you can deduce something's not right, and perhaps you need to be physically fit to be able to see the difference).

Consider that you may only need a few attributes. When you start listing out feats, consider how they play into determining reality (and if they might even allow you to control reality).

Frank

[MarkMeredith]

The problem is, that the game isn't supposed to be about how left is right and up is down. I want a realistic setting, but with things like the Horror setting or the MIB setting, you don't know who to trust. When I said "what is real and what isn't" I didn't mean physics, I meant relationships, government, etc.
What happens to characters when they realize that the government is run by the Appendix-Eating Robidash of Galaxon VI? How does that mess with their beliefs, and add to their doubts? By saying "Your character has a Body Attribute and a Mental Attribute", that is simply unrealistic, IMO.