Element - CCG

[Veritas Games]

My good man, it depends on the power of your cards and how many can be Exchanged.  It also depends on starting life points.  If your damage calibration is such that people do 8-10 damage by the time they get their 5th resource then allowing for a 6th resource is sort of moot.

Also, if things cost 6 and you play 30 cards or less then every card in your deck that costs 5 or 6 has a higher chance of being dead in an early draw unless the card can be Exchanged.

So, my answer is -- it depends.  It depends on:

* Starting Life Points
* Damage calibration
* Cost to activate effects

and a few other things.  Arguably, you could have NO maximum resource count, hoping that the game will de facto end by the time people get their 6th card in play.

Keep in mind one thing -- if you don't have a deck MINIMUM then people will always play like 5 or 6 cards if that's all that it takes to finish off an opponent, DJ.  So, in part it's going to be a giant balancing act.

If it takes 10 resources and 20 damage to finish off an opponent then people will play with 10 resources.  If they can do it with 5, then they'll try to work with 5.  Every card you require in their deck above the number minimally necessary to do the job will add some variety to the game and potentially increase chance (if every card is a "one per deck").

You need to build yourself 10 or so cards, pick a life point total, pick a damage calibration (and by that I mean how much it costs for a card to typically produce X damage or Y penetrating damage, etc.).

[mangaocid]

Quick note, then I'll reply more later.

Not limiting cards to one per deck....hopin for 3 per deck. Especially with the ability to Use 2 elements in the deck.

[mangaocid]

This thread has been inactive long enough...I had disappeared to GenCon so hadn't focused on this thread.

Element is still a work in progress. I have upped the minimum deck size to 40 cards. I'm also going to keep the hand size at 5, because I like the 5 card hand size...But I do think I'm modifying that to include that your hand be no more OR less than 5, so at the end of turn, you always end up with 5 cards.

Still thinking I'm not going to limit resource amount. I want to allow for a larger band of cool cards...god knows people like to win a game with a big close, or a great combo.

With that being said, I open the floor for criticism based on the entire thread.

The floor is open

DJ

[Veritas Games]

Nobody is going to comment in any useful or lengthy fashion until you type up some rules and potentially until you come up with at least a few sample cards.  You are asking people to comment on potentially ever-changing vaporware.  Make some things concrete, codify them, and produce something specific to encourage very specific commentary.

Just my two cents.

Your mileage may vary.

[mangaocid]

Ok, first off let me state that I'm attempting to get feedback on the core concepts BEFORE making anything super concrete, so I appreciate that you refer to it as VAPORWARE, considering it WILL change.

But, I have created a quick rule set based on what is known SO FAR, that way anybody who is interested can give their opinion and assist in furthering the DEVELOPMENT of Element - CCG.

Those that are interested my download the rules here Http://www.angelfire.com/mi/Mangoacid/deej/Element_Rules_v1.doc any constructive criticism is more than welcome, and keep in mind, the game is still in developmental stages. assistance will be appreciated AND noted within credits in the final rules.

the floor is open

DJ

[mangaocid]

I apologize ... apparently that link will not work.

see if this will work

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/Mangoacid/deej/element.html

[Veritas Games]

It took many attempts to download the document.  Something was wrong with the webspace, it seems.

General comments.

Put Major and Minor character distinctions in the SAME place on both types of characters, not in different places.  It's distracting to look for related pieces of information on different places on different cards.

You don't address what happens when STRENGTH = ARMOR in combat.  In fact, you don't list Strength and Armor (at least not as such) on either of the sample characters.

Your game plays like a simplified version of Magic the Gathering.  A lot like that, but with a Versus system style Resource Row.  You even list a bit of shared terminology: "Graveyard" is one name you list for the discard pile.  The primary one you list is "Burial Grounds".

You don't have a card diagram showing the anatomy of the card.

Also, you don't explain the Chinese characters in the corner of the card.


While this is simpler than Magic or the Vs. System, there's nothing here that makes me want to play this instead of Vs.  I think you need to work on a unique hook.  If you use that Cartouche system I came up with, that could start to be a cool hook, making every major character substantially different than every other.

[mangaocid]

Thanks lee! I dropped the ball on those things didn't I? Ok...I'm re uploading an image for the preview cards and also an updated rules set explaining a few things that I missed. There are also a few changes. I added some new stuff.

Replaced Places with "Inspirations" - These cards cover places, people and events known to the Major Character. They give bonuses to strength, armor, etc.

Added "Interference" - Labeled as "Interference X" where X is the cost. Player pays X to place that character into the attack in place of target character.

I also noticed that I never addressed that the Major Character may also attack, so I changed that.

You will also find a Card Diagram of the Minor Character.

Anything else?

The Floor is Open.

DJ

[mangaocid]

Forgot the link...
http://www.angelfire.com/mi/Mangoacid/deej/element.html

[Veritas Games]

Say "Only one total major character (none in your deck)" for deck building.

You define "exert" only a ways after you've used it already.  Also, you fail to clearly explain Recharging.  I understand these myself, but they aren't clear in the rules for people who haven't talked to you before.

You really need to rewrite the Combat rules.  Don't separate Major and Minor characters.  Treat them all the same.  Just give all Minor characters 1 Hit Point in exactly the same place you put the Hit Points for a Major Character.  Don't even say how many Hit Points Minor Characters have, just give them all 1 for now.  If you later decide to make a 2 HP Minor character you can.  Just say that if a Protector is reduced to 0 or fewer hit points that he's put in the Burial Ground and if your Major character is reduced to 0 or fewer Hit Points you lose.

You also don't talk about how attackers and defenders are chosen to interact with each other (does the defender choose to defend or not – does the attacker choose who he attacks, etc.).  In this process CLEARLY explain Interference, it's a little vague now.

Are all Protectors Minor Characters?  Are all Minor Characters Protectors?  If "yes" to both, then consolidate the terms.

Give the Major character's a Strength and Armor score rating in exactly the same place Minor Characters get it.  Just list it as "2/0".  Don't box yourself into a corner saying that all the Major characters are the same either.  Just pick the values and put them on the card.

Explain "damage reduction".

Can I play a Minor Character in the Resource Row?   If so, can he attack and defend from the Resource Row?  If he can't attack and defend from a Resource Row then say "you can't flip a Minor Character in the Resource Row".

You need substantive rules on flipping cards – when, how often, how many cards, why?

You call the Resource Row the "Energy Row" at one point.

Explain the cartouche system.


Again, overall this game looks a LOT like Magic or the Vs. System except for the cartouche system.

[mangaocid]

Lee,
Holy crap! I can't believe the stuff I missed dude! This is MUCH appreciated! I uploaded a reorganized and re written set of rules. Please! look it over...your help has been phenomenal to this point. I didn't however add information on the cartouche system(which I'll actually just refer to as Icons as the idea progresses).

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/Mangoacid/deej/element.html

Thanks once again lee for your help, and keep it coming! Anyone else? Feel free to join in!

The floor is open!

DJ

[Veritas Games]

"If a player has LESS than 5 cards, that player draws back up to 5 cards in hand."  Is this at the end of the turn only?  It seems like it.  You should probably combine this with the preceding sentence or clarify this sentence or else have a text block that says, "At the end of the turn: a) blah blah blah   b) blah blah blah" to clarify what happens at the end of the turn.

You need to give Major character's "2/0" Strength Armor and Protector's 1 Hit Point.  Make the game and game cards consistent, DJ.  Fix this not only in the rules but on the various graphics.  There is no reason not to leverage these mechanics if you've already introduced them, DJ.

"In order to play any cards from your hand, the Major character must have a Japanese symbol that matches those found in the left corner of the card you wish to play."   Ditch the phrase "from hand" as it causes some confusion about whether or not you can play cards from the energy row without those symbols.

"If it has multiple symbols, the Major Character must also have those same symbols."  Add the word "all", as in "all those same symbols" if that's what you mean.  Otherwise specify that the character has to have ONE of those symbols, if that's what you mean.

Sort of odd mechanic you have setup.  If your character has 20 Strength and mine has 1 armor, my character takes 1 damage.  If my character instead has 0 armor, my character takes 20 damage.  I'm not a fan of this.  I favor a consistent mechanic where the damage done is equal to Strength minus Armor unless there is a strong reason why you want this mechanic.

"If a character has airborne, it may attack the Major Character regardless of whether there is a Protector in play."  I thought somehow Ranged characters or something could block.  Verify your rules on this and fix this if I'm right.  The sentence that is confusing early on is this sentence "This helps to stop an aerial assault against your Major Character."  "Helps to stop" sounds like defending to me, but they can't actually defend.  I'd just lose that "helps to stop" sentence if you want things to sound more consistent.

You don't describe damage reduction, yet you use the term again and note that it can be reduced to zero.

Design hint on icons -- if you are going to consistently use only 4 icons and no more, then space them evenly on the lefthand side of the card and make sure a specific icon always appears in the same place.  That way a player doesn't have to decipher the Kanji, he can just look positionally to determine which icons match his character.  Just a thought.  Your mileage may vary.  This would be unnecessary if the Kanji were in different colors and players could color match, but if they are gonna be in black and white, then you definitely want (in my opinion) some positional way to rapidly sort cards so that you can do it mindlessly without staring intently at each card.

Thanks for the assistance credit, DJ.

[mangaocid]

alrighty *deep breath*

First off, the artwork for the cards is a PREVIEW, so it's not final design concept. The artwork is still in progress. The rules are being written to make card design easier.

Alright. Thanks again lee for the heads up on things.

"If a player has LESS than 5 cards, that player draws back up to 5 cards in hand." Is this at the end of the turn only? It seems like it. You should probably combine this with the preceding sentence or clarify this sentence or else have a text block that says, "At the end of the turn: a) blah blah blah b) blah blah blah" to clarify what happens at the end of the turn.

Fixed this. It now reads something similar to what was suggested.

Sort of odd mechanic you have setup.  If your character has 20 Strength and mine has 1 armor, my character takes 1 damage.  If my character instead has 0 armor, my character takes 20 damage.  I'm not a fan of this.  I favor a consistent mechanic where the damage done is equal to Strength minus Armor unless there is a strong reason why you want this mechanic.

My apologies on this one. I MEANT for it to read like you described...my brain must've been muddled. Again, a good reason to always consult a second set of eyes.

You don't describe damage reduction, yet you use the term again and note that it can be reduced to zero.

I HAD described damage reduction, but I added it to Explanation of terms, and I hope it's detailed enough to understand.

This would be unnecessary if the Kanji were in different colors and players could color match

As I said earlier....Preview cards - not final design. but I am making them colored icons.

With all that being said, I've also moved the site so there's less typing.
http://www.angelfire/mi/Mangoacid
Thanks once again lee for being a second set of eyes.

The Floor is Open

DJ

[Veritas Games]

I'm actually your second set of EARS.  I'm visually impaired, so I end up listening to a lot of your stuff with a text to speech reader.  :-)

I'll review your new version.

[Veritas Games]

I get a "can't find server" error on your new URL.

I have had trouble with your web space since you posted the Element rules.  It's always grumbling about one web error or another.  I surf fine on other sites.