Tales From The Floating Vagabond is looking for publishing partners

[leegarv]

Greetings and salutations!

Reality Cheque, the rights-holder of Tales From The Floating Vagabond, is planning on publishing a second edition of the game in time for the 15th anniversary! The plan is to produce a high-quality hardback rulebook (longer, funnier, better) and many supplements and adventures. But Reality Cheque can't do it on its own.

To that end, I am throwing my hat into the ring, and asking if there is anyone out there mentally unstable enough that they would like to help this game back into print. Obviously, the more people willing and able to help, the easier it will be for everybody.

I know there are people out there who believe in the power of the Vagabond, so this is your chance to be in on the relaunch of the freakiest RPG ever produced.

If you are interested and you are going to GenCon, email me and we can try to arrange a talk. If you won't be at GenCon, but are interested, drop a line anyway.

leegarv1@yahoo.com

I hope to hear from a few lunatics soon,

Lee Garvin

[Eero Tuovinen]

Interestingly enough, you never specify what kind of help you're looking for, exactly.

Also, many people reading this board - myself included - will be primarily interested in pertinent IP ownership and publication arrangements. To wit: is it indie, and in what manner?

[Vaxalon]

I think he's looking for investors.

Looking for investors from among indie RPG developers is carrying coal to Newcastle, if you ask me...

[leegarv]

Well, yes, I am looking for investors, and I know that most Indie publishers don't have the resources to do that, but I am seeking all the help possible, lessening the burden for each individual partner.  Other resources are wellcome too, of course, since this is Reality Cheque's first new publication since 1997.

As for the "Indie-ness" of Floating Vagabond, I'll leave that up to your judgement. Yes it was originally published by a somewhat big company (that has since been swallowed by a larger company that was swallowed by a behomoth), but the design was mine, and I am taking every step I can to see that it never gets out of my control again. (You're always a bit more protective of your first-born.)

[Vaxalon]

If you own it now, and you originally wrote it, then it's an indie game.

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

I suggest you do a little more reading and reflecting at this site. You are kind of on a little teeter-totter right now - one way means you'll get a whole lot of help and the other way means this thread gets closed.

Here are some points to consider, fairly seriously.

1. Most of the people who publish using the advice/aid from this site end up making substantial money. We actually could contribute a fair amount to you if anyone desires. If your image of "indie" is those guys roaming around with their three-ring notebooks and crappy photocopies of the art they produced during geometry class, then you might want to revise that.

2. But I can say with some confidence that none of us, profitable as we are, are likely to invest a dime in developing your game. Why? Because we know about how to publish in ways which cost far less, result in better-looking product, and sell far better than the ways with which you're probably familiar. I know the history of Tales From the Floating Vagabond, as I know the histories of most published games. Believe me, this site is a whole 'nother universe from what "publish" means in the context of, say, GAMA.

I and most of the folks here are far more committed to helping you discover these ways to publish. Instead of, for instance, getting out of our speedy cars to help you push along yours with square wheels, we can show you how to put round wheels on.

2. "Independent" has a specific meaning here, which Fred (Vaxalon) has accurately summarized. You wrote the game? You exert executive control over its production and over the money it makes? Then it is an independent game by our standards and is eligible for the help I'm talking about.

So! If you want that help, and if you can basically give up on that whole "investors" idea (which is nothing but a quagmire of debt and control-issues), and if you'd like to know how you can get a better-looking book, a better-playing game (if that's what you want; after all, TFV is no slouch as it stands), and a better-profiting business endeavor out of the whole thing, then we're here for it.

Best,
Ron

[Eero Tuovinen]

Ron got me interested in the historical question: what game is this, exactly? Lee: would you be interested in supplementing the thread with a compact history of the game? What it is, how it's been published previously, what's the market segment, the current situation and what you're planning for the future? I understand that the game has some cult popularity in the US, but apparently it never made any kind of impact in Finland, because I don't even know the decade. Sounds like a fantasy game, though.

Other than that, I can just affirm what Ron said. Before even thinking about things like investors, prove to us that you've already thought out the reasoning for needing them. Chances are that there's much better ways of republishing your game than the one you seem to be thinking about. You'll get much more from this place if you engage in a dialogue over your plans instead of just looking for connections to execute those plans.

[leegarv]

Well, Gentlemen, my plans are, for one thing, to see what the feasability of my intentions are. Those intentions include, yes, a better-looking, better-selling product, Mr. Edwards (TF2V was published 14 years ago in a completely different market and industry than exists today).

I game system itself has been redesigned and tested over the last several years, and is now (I beleive) much more playable and sustainable for a long campaign. As for the production values, this is why I need investors. The property itself is literaly the only thing I own in the world, but I will not let the Floating Vagabond be published in a slap-dash manner. I intend the core rulebook to be a standard-size hardcover, and I have several concepts for supplemental material that I wish to explore. I plan on actually budgeting for promotions (something that was never done to my satisfaction for the previous edition), and liscensing the concepts, characters, and images of the game for everything from miniatures to action figures to animated series. But to do all this, I need the help of people who have resources that I don't and who have a better understanding of business than I do.

I hope this clarifies my position.

Advice is absolutely welcome; I will consider it all, but be aware that I have been told I am very stubborn.

[leegarv]

Ron got me interested in the historical question: what game is this, exactly? Lee: would you be interested in supplementing the thread with a compact history of the game? What it is, how it's been published previously, what's the market segment, the current situation and what you're planning for the future? I understand that the game has some cult popularity in the US, but apparently it never made any kind of impact in Finland, because I don't even know the decade. Sounds like a fantasy game, though.

Tales From The Floating Vagabond is a Comedy Science-Fiction Fantasy game, centered around the activities of characters who frequent a bar called "The Floating Vagabond," which is built into an asteroid, situated at the center of the universe (well, a universe, anyway). The door of the bar has a device on it that randomly plucks patrons from other bars in other dimensions, all throughout time and space, dropping them into the rowdiest drinking establishment in the multiverse. The game itself stresses comedy over realism (in fact, the laws of nature themselves can be superseded by the rules of a sufficiently powerful trade union). Aside from a little bit of universe background, adventures are "anything goes."

Does that help?

[Larry L.]

For Eero's edification:

Tales From The Floating Vagabond was a sci-fi spoof humor RPG published by Avalon Hill. The Floating Vagabond being a space bar, where, you know, protagonists would meet up and go off on adventures. Sort of like Hitchhikers' Guide to the Galaxy or Spaceballs, but with its own distinct flavor.

System-wise, it was sort of like a pervy high points-of-contact version of Toon, e.g. price lists of zany cocktails, very amusing weapons tables. The handling time seemed befitting to an Avalon Hill publication, and curiously high for a humor game. Back when I played it, the GM mostly drifted the game to freeform.

I'd be tickled pink if a sleeker, funnier, indie Vagabond was published. I don't know if I'd be too interested in a big-money, high gloss, $40 re-release of another old comedy game. (Uh, not pointing fingers there. Nope.)

(Cross-posted with leegarv.)

[Andrew Morris]

So, I'm still unclear -- you are looking for what, exactly, from the Forge membership? You want people to front money that you'll pay back? You want people to buy shares of company? You want people to volunteer their talents and skills? What?

[leegarv]

So, I'm still unclear -- you are looking for what, exactly, from the Forge membership? You want people to front money that you'll pay back? You want people to buy shares of company? You want people to volunteer their talents and skills? What?

Well, for starters, lets have a discussion about all of those possibilities. I know that opinions differ on which model is best, but the folks here will have a much better grasp of them than I currently do (but I am learning). What are the pros and cons of each prospect?

This is why I'm giving myself a full year's lead-time.

[Andrew Morris]

I've found that the Forge is most useful when you're asking specific, focused questions or examining specific, focused issues. General, wide-open discussion usually spirals off in a few different directions at once, and people (myself included) lose interest.

[lumpley]

People front money that you'll pay back
Pro: Easy money for you, other than finding the people.
Con: They own your game's ass.

People buy shares of company
Pro: Easy money for you, other than finding the people.
Con: They own your game's ass.

People volunteer their talents and skills
Pro: Easy talents and skills for you, other than finding the people.
Con: a) Unreliable and b) exploitative.

If those were the only ways to make money publishing RPGs, I wouldn't publish.

Lee, the person you need to talk to and listen to is Ron. That means taking on this:

So! If you want that help, and if you can basically give up on that whole "investors" idea (which is nothing but a quagmire of debt and control-issues), and if you'd like to know how you can get a better-looking book, a better-playing game (if that's what you want; after all, TFV is no slouch as it stands), and a better-profiting business endeavor out of the whole thing, then we're here for it.

-Vincent

[Paul Czege]

Hey Lee,

As for the production values, this is why I need investors. The property itself is literaly the only thing I own in the world, but I will not let the Floating Vagabond be published in a slap-dash manner. I intend the core rulebook to be a standard-size hardcover, and I have several concepts for supplemental material that I wish to explore. I plan on actually budgeting for promotions (something that was never done to my satisfaction for the previous edition), and liscensing the concepts, characters, and images of the game for everything from miniatures to action figures to animated series.

That's an ambitious vision. It's impressive when you take a moment to envision the size of the endeavor, and the dollars changing hands. But it's the cart before the horse if you're looking to attract investors. As a prospective investor, my first question to you would be:

When you have to make a choice between the vision you've described above, and maximizing profitability, what will you choose?

Answer that question wrong, and I walk away from the table. (And don't think it's an unfair or artificial choice, that you won't have to make the profit vs. vision decision, again and again, as a publisher, on a regular basis.) You may be able to attract dollars from the naive with a lofty and impressive vision. You won't from anyone with a head for business. They want to know that you're focused on profit, not art, and not prestige. (Most soliciting in the roleplaying industry for "investors" is actually soliciting for "patrons".)

Another thing to know about business: there's no recipe for success. You can't just copy the licensing strategy of a successful business, for instance. There's no assuredness it'll work for you. (Heck, you can't even know if it's profitable for the company you're copying from.) Anyone who says you can do a business plan and have confidence in your profitability two years out is full of shit. So, as a prospective investor (particularly in the roleplaying industry) there's damn little you can tell me about your business plan that'll convince me you're a good investment. What you need to do is convince me you're ruthlessly focused on profit. I'm totally making a decision about you, and how you think, not about your plan.

The successful indie publishers at The Forge, pretty much across the board, aren't interested in the external validation of dollars changing hands and casting a big shadow over the industry. And they're also not interested in constant reassurances to investors that they haven't lost sight of their ruthless focus on profit. They're interested in designing and playing games. The validation is being part of a community, and contributing to the enjoyments of others. You can absolutely make a profit doing it. It's actually not difficult at all. But the profit comes from making decisions about how and when you spend money that don't necessarily accord with the conventional glossy hardback wisdom, or with the hopes and dreams of investors, or the egos of patrons. If you can be profitable without dealing with that crap, why ever would you choose to deal with it? (And besides, if it's your own money you're spending the success is ever so much sweeter.) Ours is a maturing hobby; and it's absolutely a fact that adults readily pay money for entertainment. The indie guy don't focus on gloss or collectibility. Those are fleetingly hollow and materialistic pleasures. Few healthy adults fail to close their wallets to them after a time. Focus instead on the enduring satisfaction of fun and community and artistry.

Paul