[DitV] So Tell Us: Was It Really The Butler?

[IMAGinES]

There's a discussion about the variance between the details of the town that the GM creates for a game of Dogs in the Vineyard and how the players decide to hand out judgment during the game. Reading and responding to it got me curious about something:

If/when you've run a Dogs in the Vineyard game, have any of your players ask afterward, "Can we have a look at your town sheet and see how far off we were in our judgment?"

If so, have you shown them?

And, again, if so, how did that come out?

[Judd]

There's a discussion about the variance between the details of the town that the GM creates for a game of Dogs in the Vineyard and how the players decide to hand out judgment during the game. Reading and responding to it got me curious about something:

If/when you've run a Dogs in the Vineyard game, have any of your players ask afterward, "Can we have a look at your town sheet and see how far off we were in our judgment?"

If so, have you shown them?

And, again, if so, how did that come out?

It isn't a mystery.  This is a fairly common misconception surrounding DitV. 

By the end of the game, shit, in the first five minutes of the game I will hand them the entire situation and then escalate, escalate, escalate. 

There is no mystery.  There is only judgement.

I don't make them root around much for the problem.  I hand it to them on a blood-filled platter and see how they deal with it.

[Brand_Robins]

I did this once.

My players looked at the town for a few moments, showed it to each other, and then one said:

"Damn this town was boring before we @#%&ed it all up."

Bastards. I'll never show them my notes again.

[Brand_Robins]

P.S. Other than the above, my only point is: What Paka Said.

WWPD is, after all, my gaming motto.

[Blankshield]

Reading out the town and/or passing it around the players afterwards was common in my sessions.  I don't think we quite did it every time, but following from Pride through to Judgement seemed a non-trivial part of Reflection to us.

James

[TonyLB]

My experience is that when you've given them (in-character) all of the information for the town, it's sometimes very useful to inform players (out-of-character) that they've got everything.  Otherwise they'll keep rooting, from long-standing patterns of play that say that when you know everything the GM knows, the GMs preferred, clean, elegant solution will become clear.

Sometimes you just have to smack 'em upside the head and say "Okay guys, you've had your fun uncovering everything.  Everything there is to know, you now know.  A clean, elegant solution is not evident, because there isn't one.  Deal with it."

I hadn't thought of printing out copies of the town sheet, but I wonder what would happen if I just handed them out to the players at that point.  Would it prejudice them toward seeing the Pride as the important sin and everything else as less important?  Would it make them feel like they hadn't done their job if they didn't punish every level of the hierarchy of sin?  I may just have to try that ....

[Jason Morningstar]

I think handing them the sheet mid-game could be a little deprotagonizing.  The town isn't really about what you wrote down, it's about what they decide it is about.  Those two things can differ powerfully, at which point your notes in public are at best a distraction and at worst a monkey wrench.  As a quaint, post-game historical document, I'm all for it, though.

--Jason

[Judd]

If after the game, just to see how you made the town up I'd show them the sheet but I'd never do so during the game.

The sheet doesn't have a right answer.  There is no right answer from the GM.  The only right answer is what the Dogs decide to do about it all.

[Vaxalon]

Hm.

I'd like to see Vincent respond to this thread.

I THINK he'd answer that, yes, there IS a right answer from the GM, with respect to how the town IS.  It's only after the town is handed over to the PC's that they get a say in how it WILL BE.

[IMAGinES]

Hi, guys,

Apologies for any confusion - The intent was definitely that the GM only shows th eplayers the sheet after the game wraps, not during the game. I think thsi stems from a mis-spelling in my question; it should be:

If/when you've run a Dogs in the Vineyard game, have any of your players asked afterward, "Can we have a look at your town sheet and see how far off we were in our judgment?"

Note, though, the inclusion of afterward, not during.

And also, this is just idle curiosity here, nothing questioning how a game of Dogs in the Vineyard is/was/should be run.

[Joshua A.C. Newman]

IMAGEineS (What's your real name?), it doesn't matter. If the Steward shot somebody who was causin' wrong in the town, then blamed it on his partner in crime, the players should know that by half an hour in. If they haven't figured it out, it's because you're hiding the information, which is against the rules.

[IMAGinES]

Yeah, I know; all of the actual play reports I've read show the players figuring out what's going on with little trouble.

I guess I was just curious. No worries!

[IMAGinES]

(What's your real name?)

Rob, by the way.

[Joshua A.C. Newman]

(What's your real name?)

Rob, by the way.

Hi, Rob! Nice to meet you.

[IMAGinES]

You too, Glyphmonkey.

And on that note, I'd say this thread is pretty much wrapped up, eh?