[DitV] Lightbulb moments abound

[Andrew Morris]

I ran the first session of  Dogs in the Vineyard this past weekend, and had some interesting moments observing the players.

Players[/u]

Dan -- I've only known him a few months, but we've played Capes together. I don't really know much about his play preferences.
Don -- A former co-worker who I've known for years. A while back, we designed and ran a game that was a total disaster. Looking back on it, the reasons are pretty clear why, since it was a Fantasy Heartbreaker, without the core of innovation that makes FHs heartbreaking. Don's RP experience was primarilly D&D and boffer LARPs. He'd played in an old V:tM table-top game I ran a few years back.
Jon -- My cousin. He's like a younger, healthier, better-looking version of myself. We speak pretty much the same language, but his only experience with RP was playing in a couple of V:tM LARPs.
Krista -- A friend from school, who I've gamed with before. She seems shy to put forward her own agenda in a group, but Capes beat that out of her somewhat.
Tim -- I've known him for years, through V:tM LARPs. Wickedly brilliant strategic and tactical thinker who can beat the pants off me at chess with one brain lobe tied behind his back. We'd never played a table-top game together, but he'd always struck me as a highly competitive player who enjoyed gaming the system as much as possible.

We spent most of the session discussing the game and setting as well as creating characters. I found this to be a good thing, since only Krista and Dan had gamed together before, and everyone got a chance to chat and get to know one another a bit. The bit about no trait being "better" than any other was accepted easily -- far more so than I'd expected, especially from Tim. We ran long, but managed to clear the very straightforward town I'd prepared.

The first of the minor hiccups during chargen was when Dan proposed to play a fairly twisted ex-Catholic nun who'd converted to the Faith. Since DitV seems to very carefully avoid any mention of real-world religions, I thought about steering Dan away from the idea, but the other players seemed enthusiastic about the concept. Since DitV GMs are supposed to feed back what the players are interested in (Right? I didn't read that in out of my own expectations, right?) I let it go.

The second almost-problem was Tim basing his character off Jayne, from Firefly. I've always been against the whole "my character is just like this character from another fictional work," but I sure do love me some Firely, especially Jayne, so I didn't say nuthin. As it happened, Tim really only used a similar archetype to create his Dog, so it worked out just fine, even though he named his character Br. Jayne.

Characters

Sr. Carolena di Baroni  (Dan) -- As stated, she was a Catholic nun. She came to realise that her convent was riddled with sorceresses and demons, so she piked up a hatchet and hunted them down one by one. Wandering away from the masacre, she was picked up by a band of Faithful, and came to learn not ony the glory of the King of Life, but the Steward of the branch she settled in realized her destiny was to root out evil as a Dog. Interesting points-- "Obviously not from 'round here" at 3d4 and "They made me a Dog" at 2d4. Her coat was made from the remnants of her nun's habit.
Br. Praise-God (Don) -- Raised up in the Faith, his older brother was a Dog, and died during the course of his service. Some family issues with respect and living up to the image of his brother. Interesting points -- "They tell me I'm a Dog" at 2d6 and "Y'all are s'posed to listen to me" at 1d6. His coat was his brother's. The poor fit is a constant reminder of how he's following in his brother's footsteps, and has to live up to it.
Br. Jedediah (Jon) -- His parents were from Back East, but converted to the Faith. He was raised in the Faith, and believes, but he wonders about his parent's wicked former life. And in wondering, he wants to learn more. In learning more...you get the picture. Interesting points -- "I was born a Dog" at 2d6, "Curiousity killed the...dog" at 1d6, and "I reason darn good" 3d6. He had a long, regal coat done up in purple and yellow.
Sr. Epipheny (Krista) -- Raised in the Faith, as a proper Faithful woman. Now that she's a Dog, she's having problems meshing her upbringing with the role that's now expected of her. Krista really seized upon my comment early on in the discussion that gender issues were going to be in the spotlight, at least in the first town. Interesting points -- "I'm a female Dog" at 1d4. Her coat was lovingly created, and featured intricate scrollwork that has a hidden cipher used only between her and her favorite brother. The secret code spells out her favorite passages from the Book of Life.
Br. Jayne (Tim) -- A former sinner, now fervent in his newfound Faith. Still, he's a big, imposing brute, and far more likely to beat repentence out of a sinner than quote from the Book of Life. He doesn't have a Dog's coat, just a colorfol band sewed onto the sleeve of a regular coat. Interesting points -- he doesn't like guns, believes every sinner can be saved, and carries a big axe handle as his main weapon.

Initiatory Conflicts

I thought these were flat-out awesome. Hell, I enjoyed them better than the town I created. Admittedly, I specifically set out to create a very easy town to deal with. The sin was right there, and it was pretty easy to find out where it came from. Still, the players really made their characters come alive during the initiatory conflicts.

Sr. Carolena di Baroni  (Dan) -- The stakes were "I hope I solved a problem without killing." During a break in her training, Sr. Carolena was accosted by some drunken TA soldiers, and the situation rapidly went from bad to worse. Sr. Carolena managed to shame the soldiers into letting her go, after they'd stabbed her and had a noose around her neck.
Br. Praise-God (Don) -- The stakes were "I hope my pa learned to respect me as much as my brother." In the end, he did, but only after a bit of rough physical conflict.
Br. Jedediah (Jon) -- Grr. I need to take notes, because I can't remember this one for the life of me. I believe it was something intellectual, with Jon ending up taking the trait "Asks questions twice."
Sr. Epipheny (Krista) -- Probably the most interesting one. The stakes were "I hope my player learned to think of herself as equal to any male Dog." Interesting thing here was that Krista was playing to lose, and take fallout.
Br. Jayne (Tim) -- The stakes were "I hope I beat the sin out of a sinner." He actually didn't beat his old buddy too much, but did convince him to come to the Faith.

What I Found Most Interesting

1) At one point the players had split up and one group uncovered the core of sin in the branch. There was some discussion about which characters should know what, until I broke in and said, "Forget all that. Direct your characters with all the information in mind, instead of fumbling around." There was something of a stunned moment of silence and Tim said something along the lines of, "You mean we're supposed to metagame?" Once they got that in their heads, they jumped on it, making decisions based on what would be cooler, rather than on what their characters "should" know. I was loving it, and they appeared to feel the same way.

2) Tim was the only player who seemed to get follow-up conflicts, and did an amazing series of  "find out sin," "confess your sin," and "repent your sin, never to do it again." By the end of that, his dice were just so damn overwhelming I had to give as soon as we'd rolled. Tim really stood out for me, since I'd either badly misinterpreted his gaming preferences, or he just seized on the spirit of the game with total buy-in.

3) There was still a bit of reflexive "party" mentality, but that vanished quickly.

All in all, it was a fun session, the players were all jazzed, and so was I. Tim and Krista really stood out this session, so I'm hoping to have some elements in the next town that will give the other players some spotlight time.

[Jason Morningstar]

Sr. Epipheny (Krista) -- Probably the most interesting one. The stakes were "I hope my player learned to think of herself as equal to any male Dog." Interesting thing here was that Krista was playing to lose, and take fallout.

Can you comment some more on this?  Am I reading it correctly in thinking she had her character initiating a conflict about her as a player?  Because that would be really cool.

--Jason

[Mayuran]

2) Tim was the only player who seemed to get follow-up conflicts, and did an amazing series of  "find out sin," "confess your sin," and "repent your sin, never to do it again." By the end of that, his dice were just so damn overwhelming I had to give as soon as we'd rolled. Tim really stood out for me, since I'd either badly misinterpreted his gaming preferences, or he just seized on the spirit of the game with total buy-in.

so, if i'm getting you correctly, each of these conflicts was different.  how exactly did his dice get overwhelming (he should start with relatively the same amount in each separate conflict)?  or was it that he took fallout in the conflicts, and got extra dice as a result in the following conflicts?

even when the GM rolls really poorly, there's always a chance to put in a few raises that really push the conflict somewhere.  "okay, she decides to repent her sin by committing suicide."  maybe the player does have the dice to stop her, or maybe he just WON'T.

[Andrew Morris]

Jason, Krista wanted her character to be struggling with gender  role issues, so she was, on the one hand, trying to live up to being a dog (whether male or female). The other, larger part was her self-doubt. She played her character as she was, while I took on the aspect of herself that was filled with self-doubt and fear of change. She fought long enough to get some fallout and experience, but not hard enough to win.

mtiru (real name?), you are correct that each was a separate conflict. Tim racked up overwhelming dice because neither I nor the players cared to distribute the fallout from the precursor conflicts, so I gave the fallout dice to Tim to use in the follow up conflicts. Wash, rinse, repeat. Start a new conflict, look at the dice....hmm....no amout of escalation will make a difference here, so I give.

[Mayuran]

mtiru (real name?), you are correct that each was a separate conflict. Tim racked up overwhelming dice because neither I nor the players cared to distribute the fallout from the precursor conflicts, so I gave the fallout dice to Tim to use in the follow up conflicts. Wash, rinse, repeat. Start a new conflict, look at the dice....hmm....no amout of escalation will make a difference here, so I give.

aha.  now, Tim only gets the "two highest" dice from the NPCs fallout (GM rolls).  this is one of the new, revised rules.  the old rule was "big pile of fallout dice for the players to use."

in fact, I think we missed this rule last time I played.

peace

Mayuran

[Andrew Morris]

Ahh, I see. I don't have the new, revised rules.

[Mayuran]

Ahh, I see. I don't have the new, revised rules.

here they are:

http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=16052.0

that said, what kind of fallout was he inflicting on these conflicts?  if they were just talking, then the d4s aren't going to help him much even in the old rules. 

if he started inflicting physical and fighting damage,  i would have opted as GM to give the NPCs the fallout - cause they could have taken negative relationships with tim, traits to help them mess with him in conflicts ("I don't take kindly to Dogs telling me what to do 1d4"), or even been seriously injured by his efforts - requiring medical attention or worse.

but as long as you didn't feel like the game suffered because Tim steamrolled you with fallout dice, it's just something to know about for the next session.

mayuran

[Andrew Morris]

Thanks, Mayuran. The first session was definitely just to get us all used to the mechanics, so I didn't feel badly about how things turned out, I just wasn't expecting it. I'll use the new rules for the upcoming towns, where the Dogs will face more serious opponents.

[TonyLB]

2) Tim was the only player who seemed to get follow-up conflicts, and did an amazing series of  "find out sin," "confess your sin," and "repent your sin, never to do it again." By the end of that, his dice were just so damn overwhelming I had to give as soon as we'd rolled. Tim really stood out for me, since I'd either badly misinterpreted his gaming preferences, or he just seized on the spirit of the game with total buy-in.

Your description of his style is that he games any system to the hilt, pushing for mechanical advantage.  That's exactly what he was doing here, in Dogs ... just in Dogs, it leads to great story.  I guess what I'm asking is "Why did this surprise you, given what you knew?"

[Andrew Morris]

Your description of his style is that he games any system to the hilt, pushing for mechanical advantage.  That's exactly what he was doing here, in Dogs ... just in Dogs, it leads to great story.  I guess what I'm asking is "Why did this surprise you, given what you knew?"

Errr....yeah, I guess that's a good point.  So I guess I was suprised because I didn't have enough faith in the system. And there were other moments that I didn't mention where he really added to my enjoyment of the game. I expected him to be hard to sell on it, but I was wrong.