My new game.

[Starblade]

Heya,

Hiyas.

Actually, they are not pregenerated. They are generated when you ask for them. HOWEVER, you have to roll a dice or something to see what they're like. I'm also thinking of making it so you could write out personal ads, so if you're patient enough timewise, but stubborn enough statwise, you can get a character that is basically of your own making. Well, close enough.

The thing is... while I like character generation, I don't know how it fits in with this game's setting. I suppose it would work if you DON'T automatically associate this character with the Gaterunners, and each time you built a new character, you'd have to sorta bump into them.

-I'm not saying that pregenerating the initial player-characters is a bad thing at all.  In fact, I view it as a great thing.  It cuts down on startup time and will prevent people from getting screwed from the get-go because they made a few "less than optimum" choices during character creation.  So keep that idea.  What I am suggesting is the the players be allowed to alter the Pre-gened characters once they start playing AND be allowed to generate from the ground up new Player-characters that will be shared by the whole group once they start playing.  It's something that not many games do at all and I think it would be fun to try.  Let me know if I need to explain this more fully :)

I suppose. I still want the players to EARN the ability to generate new characters. How about this: Depending on whether or not the city is on good terms with you will determine whether the characters you generate are independent, on the side of the gaterunners, or on the other side. Furthermore, each city will have its own variant of characters that are likely to be generated, if that's not too much to ask.

I don't see why you ignored my other idea. I don't even know what you think of it. Was it a bad idea? You can tell me.

I think money will be cultural. It will be a way to get involved with a culture, and it will help gain status amongst your peers, and amongst the whole culture. I think that the whole getting involved with the culture idea will work as a way for money to be used in the game. I know, I could just do without money, but what is a culture without its currency? How do people judge something's value?

-Oh I can definately see the different cultures have money.  That's totally cool.  And if the PCs have to get some to use as a resource to pay off mercenaries or topple dictators or whatever, that's awesome too!  What Joe and I are talking about is making money important to the PCs gaining personal resources for themselves.  Buying equipment and food doesn't make much sense in your game IMO.  They should start with armor and weapons as you said earlier, and anything that would upgrade those initial items should be found on Monsters and Villains that the PCs face in the campaign. 

None of the monsters will have actual weapons, armor and items on them. However, that's not to say that slags of metal or rough tree branch or whatever makes sense as far as material components for weapons and armor aren't going to get caught in their skin and fur every once in a while. :P

I want to introduce a kind of forging thing, where you take material components and if you had enough of them, you could forge something out of them. Of course it may or may not also require magic, so depending on the smithy, you'd be able to create different things.

As for villains, I suppose they'd have weapons, armor, and items on them. Though they'd have to be for the same species, and all that.

Money, as I said, will mainly be for interacting with the cultures.

Charisma is a stat, however you can boost rolls that use charisma quite easily, by how well you take care of your body, by what you wear, in terms of magical items or also in terms of just the right level of decoration that you look good, but you don't look gaudy. Furthermore, as I've said before, acting IN character makes your personality more potent. This means if you're gonna decorate yourself, it has to be fitting of the character. A person can be disliked but have high charisma, because people RESPECT the force of your personality.

-Okay cool.  So let me understand this correctly: You can raise your charisma by A) Maintaining your body, B) Attaining ornamented Magic Items, C) Wearing Fancy Clothes, and D) Initimidating people.  Is that right?  If so, then I think it's totally cool.

Well, they don't influence the base attribute, but there will be a little box there that says how much added charisma you have.

Also, I don't see how you read D intimidating people out of what you said. At the times where it is appropriate, yeah you'll get a bonus for that, but at other times where it is inappropriate, you'll get a penalty. I think you read that from acting in character. Now depending on the character, you'd get a bonus for acting in character.

I was also thinking that the whole 'wearing fancy clothes' thing would affect people more if what you wore were appropriate for your status level. However I don't want to get charisma and status too intertwined, so I might not do that. However, I probably wouldn't have the characters wear 'fancy' clothes so much as 'good' clothes unless it's at a particular convention, or if they themselves have already accomplished enough to warrant 'fancy' over simply 'good'.

Status can be improved simply by making choices that make sense.

-Is it the GM that decides this?  If so, do you give him any guidelines to go by to help him jeduge the "make sense"-ness of a decision?

A decision that is in the interest of the party QUA their goal in doing whatever it is that they think would make the ancients want to return at that point (IE as a part of the plot) would be a status thing. Now there's status, which affects how others see you, and then there's a open peg alignment system. By open peg alignment system I mean, certainly some of the things you do will please some 'nations' and displease other 'nations'. So how well you acted in the favor of a 'nation' or against the favor of a 'nation' would also play into effect.

What may lose your reputation in one city will gain your reputation in others.

-I like this, but it might be hard to keep track of in-game.  Perhaps you could include a spot on the Ebb/Flow tracking sheet for character Status too.  So the GM can tell what all the conditions of an area will be like for the PCs if they go there.  I don't know, just thinking out loud.  It's something for you to consider :)

Well I think I've got it. There will be a globe, and on that globe will be sectors. This is for ebb and flow. There would be pieces you could put on the globe to indicate ebb or flow. A black piece means ebb, a white peace means flow. Now this globe will probably be one of the more modern 'flattening' methods where you have a rectangular map that preserves land areas. The map will be pretty big. You could probably just paint dimes and that would work.

Of course, you could do a thing similar to what you do below. I'll explain.

For the whole liked-disliked thing, you'd have a list of cities you've visited, and on a scale from 1-9 you rate how the city thinks of you. Now I use city as a general term here for populated area, just so you know. I did the same with nations. I don't know why I used nations instead of cities. I just do that sometimes. The six cultures will each have a different way that populated areas will be represented. Some will actually be nations. Some will actually be cities. Some may even be tribes. If you want to know more, I could tell you about them.

Peace,

-Troy

(...Starblade Riven Darksquall...) AKA Matthew F.

[Troy_Costisick]

Heya,

I suppose. I still want the players to EARN the ability to generate new characters. How about this: Depending on whether or not the city is on good terms with you will determine whether the characters you generate are independent, on the side of the gaterunners, or on the other side. Furthermore, each city will have its own variant of characters that are likely to be generated, if that's not too much to ask.

-That sounds like it might work.  It certainly is different, and that's definately a good thing.  Keep developing along these lines and I think it will turn out well for ya.

I don't see why you ignored my other idea. I don't even know what you think of it. Was it a bad idea? You can tell me.

-I might have just missed it.  Could you restate it and highlight exactly why you liked it?  In longer threads like this, something it's possible for something to get overlooked.  It's no big deal, and I'm glad you were courageous enough to point it out.  Let me see it again, and I'll try to comment on it this time.

None of the monsters will have actual weapons, armor and items on them. However, that's not to say that slags of metal or rough tree branch or whatever makes sense as far as material components for weapons and armor aren't going to get caught in their skin and fur every once in a while. :P

-Even better than what I thought.  Nice work.

As for villains, I suppose they'd have weapons, armor, and items on them. Though they'd have to be for the same species, and all that.

-Obviously.  But that's a GM's call.

Also, I don't see how you read D intimidating people out of what you said. At the times where it is appropriate, yeah you'll get a bonus for that, but at other times where it is inappropriate, you'll get a penalty.

-And that's how it should work.  Perfect!

I was also thinking that the whole 'wearing fancy clothes' thing would affect people more if what you wore were appropriate for your status level. However I don't want to get charisma and status too intertwined, so I might not do that.

-Good call.  Consider me supporting that greatly.

By open peg alignment system I mean, certainly some of the things you do will please some 'nations' and displease other 'nations'. So how well you acted in the favor of a 'nation' or against the favor of a 'nation' would also play into effect.

-Will there be nations that are on opposing ends of a scale similar to the way Ebb and Flow are opposing?  For instance, high Status with one will translate to negative Status with the other.

Well I think I've got it. There will be a globe, and on that globe will be sectors. This is for ebb and flow. There would be pieces you could put on the globe to indicate ebb or flow. A black piece means ebb, a white peace means flow. Now this globe will probably be one of the more modern 'flattening' methods where you have a rectangular map that preserves land areas. The map will be pretty big. You could probably just paint dimes and that would work.

-That might be a little hard to get into a game book, but that's something you can worry about waaaaaaaaaaaaay down the road.  I think you have a solid begining idea right there.

Some will actually be nations. Some will actually be cities. Some may even be tribes. If you want to know more, I could tell you about them.

-Hold off on Setting information for right now.  Let's work on your System first.  Sound cool? :)

Peace,

-Troy

[Starblade]

Heya,

Hiyas.

I don't see why you ignored my other idea. I don't even know what you think of it. Was it a bad idea? You can tell me.

-I might have just missed it.  Could you restate it and highlight exactly why you liked it?  In longer threads like this, something it's possible for something to get overlooked.  It's no big deal, and I'm glad you were courageous enough to point it out.  Let me see it again, and I'll try to comment on it this time.

Basically, it involved worshiping at the religious facilities, and doing what your intuition tells you, and getting fate points, which could then be spent on things involving drawing the right people toward you, and if you had enough, you could create a new character from scratch that would somehow bump into the party, or whatnot. However, that idea is tenative, because most of the game stuff involves stuff from the gaterunners perspective and this would be a break from that.

By open peg alignment system I mean, certainly some of the things you do will please some 'nations' and displease other 'nations'. So how well you acted in the favor of a 'nation' or against the favor of a 'nation' would also play into effect.

-Will there be nations that are on opposing ends of a scale similar to the way Ebb and Flow are opposing?  For instance, high Status with one will translate to negative Status with the other.

Hm... I hadn't thought of that. However, people aren't like the natural forces. There are some things that both would naturally like, so I doubt there will be any direct negative correlations (or direct positive correlations for that matter) except possibly as the circumstances will permit. Though the statuses won't be COMPLETELY independent of eachother. For example, being well liked by one MIGHT translate into some of being disliked by the other and vice versa, or being well liked by one might translate into some of being liked by the other and the same for being disliked. However, in general, they are independant of eachother, and only dependant on the actions of the party.

Well I think I've got it. There will be a globe, and on that globe will be sectors. This is for ebb and flow. There would be pieces you could put on the globe to indicate ebb or flow. A black piece means ebb, a white peace means flow. Now this globe will probably be one of the more modern 'flattening' methods where you have a rectangular map that preserves land areas. The map will be pretty big. You could probably just paint dimes and that would work.

-That might be a little hard to get into a game book, but that's something you can worry about waaaaaaaaaaaaay down the road.  I think you have a solid begining idea right there.

That's just an example of something you can do. This will give players other good ideas of how to represent ebb and flow.

Some will actually be nations. Some will actually be cities. Some may even be tribes. If you want to know more, I could tell you about them.

-Hold off on Setting information for right now.  Let's work on your System first.  Sound cool? :)

Alright. I revived another thread about Gaterunners that will be about setting information.

Peace,

-Troy

(...Starblade Riven Darksquall...) AKA Matthew F.

[Troy_Costisick]

Heya,

Basically, it involved worshiping at the religious facilities, and doing what your intuition tells you, and getting fate points, which could then be spent on things involving drawing the right people toward you, and if you had enough, you could create a new character from scratch that would somehow bump into the party, or whatnot.

-That idea sounds like it would work.  Include it in your playtest version and we'll see how it works out.

Hm... I hadn't thought of that. However, people aren't like the natural forces. There are some things that both would naturally like, so I doubt there will be any direct negative correlations (or direct positive correlations for that matter) except possibly as the circumstances will permit. Though the statuses won't be COMPLETELY independent of eachother. For example, being well liked by one MIGHT translate into some of being disliked by the other and vice versa, or being well liked by one might translate into some of being liked by the other and the same for being disliked. However, in general, they are independant of eachother, and only dependant on the actions of the party.

-That's fine.  But it will require you (the designer) to create some very good cheat sheets for the GM and players to use.  A game can be as complex as you want, so long as you make it user-friendly for all the players.  Make sense?

-Let me ask you a couple other important questions about your game:

1.) What are the Take or Conflict resolution mechanics of your game like?

2.) How do the resolution mechanics reinforce what your game is about?

3.) Instead, are you going to make it a D20 game?

Peace,

-Troy

[Starblade]

Heya,

Hiyas.

Basically, it involved worshiping at the religious facilities, and doing what your intuition tells you, and getting fate points, which could then be spent on things involving drawing the right people toward you, and if you had enough, you could create a new character from scratch that would somehow bump into the party, or whatnot.

-That idea sounds like it would work.  Include it in your playtest version and we'll see how it works out.

Alright. I will test it to see if it works.

Hm... I hadn't thought of that. However, people aren't like the natural forces. There are some things that both would naturally like, so I doubt there will be any direct negative correlations (or direct positive correlations for that matter) except possibly as the circumstances will permit. Though the statuses won't be COMPLETELY independent of eachother. For example, being well liked by one MIGHT translate into some of being disliked by the other and vice versa, or being well liked by one might translate into some of being liked by the other and the same for being disliked. However, in general, they are independant of eachother, and only dependant on the actions of the party.

-That's fine.  But it will require you (the designer) to create some very good cheat sheets for the GM and players to use.  A game can be as complex as you want, so long as you make it user-friendly for all the players.  Make sense?

What do you mean cheat sheets? Like, which nations dislike eachother, and which nations like eachother? I can do that, easily.

-Let me ask you a couple other important questions about your game:

1.) What are the Take or Conflict resolution mechanics of your game like?

2.) How do the resolution mechanics reinforce what your game is about?

3.) Instead, are you going to make it a D20 game?

Peace,

-Troy

This is the hard part. This is where I have to choose between tradition and making my game unique.

However, I have thought of this: As long as the probabilities stay the same, whatever dice you use, or random number generator, or pulling cards, doesn't matter.

Of course, here's another option I've been thinking of: A d4, d6, or d8 for simple 'succeed/fail' rolls, a d10 or d20 for 'horrible/poor/fair/good/excellent' and similar type rolls, a d12 for gateway related things, and a d100 for strategy related rolls, so that each number represents a unique outcome.

I was also thinking something along the lines of this: a agility vs dexterity roll would determine if you hit and where, and a strength + weapon vs constitution + armor would determine how hard you hit, and whether you pierce the armor, do damage to the armor, or just glance off or bounce back.

The stats are as follows: Strength, Constitution, Dexterity, Agility, Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma, and Instinct. The game will be classless, and the only thing similar to class will be 'preferred adventuring style', and I'm not sure how that one will work, but it incorporates classlike attributes and stat/talents focus and all that.

I might even make metastats, like stamina, and determination, which are dependant upon the other stats, perhaps wholly, perhaps only somewhat. I don't want to decrease the number of stats, because I want to reflect the idea that there is a LOT of factors that go into living in the real world.

For talent, BTW, I was thinking of combining skills and feats in a way, such that skills would only go up to a certain amount, some high, some low, and on the upper end it goes up to something like 20 or 30, and on the lower end it goes only to 1, meaning either you have it or you don't, and the ones that went up to 1 would be like feats. Also, some talents would be stat based, and some wouldn't be. This is also kinda like skills and feats. However, some talents will be easier to learn, and some more difficult.

As you can see, I would much prefer to do a variant of DnD rather than throw the whole system away. However, I don't want to mimic DnD or other, what do they call these things? Variants? I don't want to mimic DnD or those who based themselves off of DnD.

I want a unique system for spells and monsters, and in fact unique spells and monsters, which is a given. For those who want to talk about that, they might as well do so in the other thread about Gaterunners.

I hope this hasn't been too long for you to read. Then again, if you've stuck with me thus far... :P

(...Starblade Riven Darksquall...)

[Starblade]

Oh, and in case I didn't make it clear enough in my previous thread, that's just a possibility of me using dice. I certainly want some kind of random number generating method, but dice seemed easiest. If there are suggestions you'd like to make, go ahead. I personally think I could do better than what I already suggested, but that may depend on me getting feedback. :P

Also, I've noticed that there are questions at the beginning of this thread that weren't answered. If they weren't answered so far, through the course of this thread, then please re-ask them. I'm sure they were important. Not re-asking them means you've dropped the question, either because it's already been answered, or you don't consider the question, in the context of the game, important. ^^

[Starblade]

I have been reading other threads in the forum, and I think I see why I hadn't been getting any responses from Troy recently. He was right not to respond. I had no idea what was meant by 'resolution system'. Anyway, I read up on a few things, and I have a basic understanding of what was being asked.

I wanted to present you with a chat log, but Joe said that it would be better if I express the ideas behind the chat rather than the chat itself. Anyways, here it is.

Joe and I were discussing the whole GNS system of gaming and he told me that it was Gamist and/or Simulationist, and I suggested that it was possible to make it all three. He then told me that each game has portions of each. I then asked if my game was lacking, like, perhaps it was lacking Narrativist aspects, and he told me it would depend on the mechanics. This is where I got my first idea of how I believed the mechanics should be oriented.

In my words, I said: "I want the focus to be that each character has his or her own self interest to pursue in a real world, where the values are as real as the setting. If I present the correct focus, it will be a smooth blend of GNS."

I also suggested that, depending on the context, a Drama, Karma, or Fortune mechanic would play into the effet. He then suggested conflict resolution for the game, though earlier I had suggested I wanted a blend and at about that time he said that most games that tried to blend ended up as task resolution.

Now that brings me back to the question at hand: Which resolution system was I going to use? Here's an idea: I want to moderate how vague or specific an action is. I don't want the actions to be too specific, nor do I want them to be too vague. However, I'd need a system on top of the resolution system to determine which type of actions are appropriate.

I was thinking, then, to have the player announce what his goals are, and how he hopes to achieve them, and if they are impossible, the GM will tell the player that it is impossible. It may be strictly impossible, meaning nobody could do it, or it may be that the player doesn't have the stats. Or it could be that given the stats, the player only has a CHANCE at doing the action. If the player wants to change the action to one where his stats give assured victory, the player may make another suggestion. Or he may take the chance.

I also want to impress the idea that this is simply the character thinking to themself, so that depending on instinct or intelligence, or both, or something like that, there will be a given time compression. Thinking will not be 100% free. Nor will talking, for that matter. This is the basis for my mechanics. It is context driven.

What do you think?

BTW, the stats are as follows:
Strength: Capacity to affect change physically through sheer brute force.
Constitution: Capacity to resist physical change to oneself.
Dexterity: Capacity to influence other objects manually via finesse.
Agility: Capacity to influence the way one is oriented relative to self and other things.
Intelligence: Capacity to reason and acquire knowledge rationally.
Wisdom: Capacity to recall data and acquire knowledge empirically.
Charisma: Capacity to affect other people through force of personality.
Instinct: Capacity to react mentally to sudden change and call upon preprogrammed responses.

What are the purposes of each stat? I can answer that one.

You may think that there isn't any reason I can't have more, or less, stats. However, I want to stress that there is a balance between body and mind, and that's why there are eight. Why not six? Why not ten? Well I wanted a more accurate portrayal of the person the player controls, and I felt that adding two to the traditional six of DnD, at least the six of the version I play, made sense.

Okay, now I can give an example of how something may rely on two stats. Someone's speed depends on how much force they can put into running, and how they actually run. So that's Strength and Agility. How quickly someone can get out of the way of a speeding arrow depends on how quickly they can move and how quickly they can think. So that's Agility and Instinct. How well one can pull out an arrow without causing damage relies on ones knowledge on arrows and how good they are with their hands. So that's Wisdom and Dexterity. The list goes on.

If you have any good examples of how one can combine stats, or have an issue with my system, let me know, okay? Like, stamina, which would be a strength/constitution mix, or engage in argument, which might be three, which are Charisma, Intelligence, and Wisdom... though it might not be, and might be only two of those three. Thoughts?

Alright, now comes the hard part. What stats do each of the characters have? This is a work-in-progress, so let me tell you of the races. They are, in order of hottest home planet to coldest home planet:
Armadillo.
Otter.
Monkey.
Lizard.
Bird.
Gargoyle.

Now I might switch Monkey and Lizard in terms of their mid-range heat things, but that depends on what their homeworld looks like.

Their planets are:
Desert (both sand and red rock)
Ocean (with the occasional island)
Forest (tropical, temperate, and boreal)
Grasslands (including plains and savanna)
Alpine (along with tundra and glaciers)
Cavern (subterrainain, with a surface of dead rock)

I've pretty much described every terrain type there is. If I'm missing any, feel free to tell me!

[Troy_Costisick]

Heya,

I have been reading other threads in the forum, and I think I see why I hadn't been getting any responses from Troy recently. He was right not to respond.

-Nope, I just went on a little weekend trip and just now got back.  I'm catching up on a few other things and I'll get back to ya ASAP :)

Peace,

-Troy

[joepub]

I also want to impress the idea that this is simply the character thinking to themself, so that depending on instinct or intelligence, or both, or something like that, there will be a given time compression. Thinking will not be 100% free. Nor will talking, for that matter. This is the basis for my mechanics. It is context driven.

That's a really cool idea. Wanna elaborate on that one?

That drastically changes the game - DRASTICALLY changes it.
but it's a cool idea.

[Troy_Costisick]

Heya,

However, I have thought of this: As long as the probabilities stay the same, whatever dice you use, or random number generator, or pulling cards, doesn't matter.

-You wouldn't believe how big of a step that is, Starblade.  That's awesome.  Some people never make it to this realization.  There's one step further, though, that you can go.  I'll write it here,"The dice/cards/randomizers you use in this game directly reinforce what the game is about, otherwise they dilute its content."  Keep that in the back of your mind as we talk about things further.

This is the hard part. This is where I have to choose between tradition and making my game unique.

-Okay.  Let me just say upfront that there is nothing wrong with using d20.  If ultimately that's the way you decide to go, that's a fine choice in my book.  I'm not saying you have to, I'm just saying it's okay to.  Make sense?

Of course, here's another option I've been thinking of: A d4, d6, or d8 for simple 'succeed/fail' rolls, a d10 or d20 for 'horrible/poor/fair/good/excellent' and similar type rolls, a d12 for gateway related things, and a d100 for strategy related rolls, so that each number represents a unique outcome.

-I like lots of different dice, but let's see if we can give them a point here.  If 1-2 is a success on a d4, it's no different from a 1-4 on a d8 or 1-10 on a d20.  So why use different die?  Perhaps it is tied to culture.  Say the number 4 is significant to the Otter Religion.  Therefore it would make sense that they use 1d4 for their rolls.  Say the Armadillo people have 10 seasons on their planet.  They would use a d10.  Extrapolate this further to other parts of the game.  The otters are weak and only do a 1d4 dmg.  the Armadillos are strong, so they do a 1d10.  BUT, the Otters are fast so would roll a 1d4 for their initiative (say the lowest result is best) while the slow armadillos would roll a 1d10.  These are just some random thoughts.  But I'd like to see you alaborate further on the context of all these different die types in your game.

I was also thinking something along the lines of this: a agility vs dexterity roll would determine if you hit and where, and a strength + weapon vs constitution + armor would determine how hard you hit, and whether you pierce the armor, do damage to the armor, or just glance off or bounce back.

-Are these opposed rolls or one roll and then a check against a value?

For talent, BTW, I was thinking of combining skills and feats in a way, such that skills would only go up to a certain amount, some high, some low, and on the upper end it goes up to something like 20 or 30, and on the lower end it goes only to 1, meaning either you have it or you don't, and the ones that went up to 1 would be like feats. Also, some talents would be stat based, and some wouldn't be. This is also kinda like skills and feats. However, some talents will be easier to learn, and some more difficult.

-My tendancy is towards consistancy, but for your game this might work.  Definately get some feedback once you start playtesting this.

Joe and I were discussing the whole GNS system of gaming and he told me that it was Gamist and/or Simulationist, and I suggested that it was possible to make it all three.

I also suggested that, depending on the context, a Drama, Karma, or Fortune mechanic would play into the effet. He then suggested conflict resolution for the game, though earlier I had suggested I wanted a blend and at about that time he said that most games that tried to blend ended up as task resolution.

-These are noble intentions, but as most people who know about Forge theory and have published a game can tell you, it's best to just focus on one aspect of each.  If you're Gamist, go after being a Gamist with everything you've got.  If it's a Drama mechanic you're going to use, make that mechanic matter in every instance it's used.  But honestly, I wouldn't worry about all that stuff right now.  Just concentrait on making a fun game, and then come back and look at theory later.

I was thinking, then, to have the player announce what his goals are, and how he hopes to achieve them, and if they are impossible, the GM will tell the player that it is impossible. It may be strictly impossible, meaning nobody could do it, or it may be that the player doesn't have the stats. Or it could be that given the stats, the player only has a CHANCE at doing the action. If the player wants to change the action to one where his stats give assured victory, the player may make another suggestion. Or he may take the chance.

-That's fine. How about making a mechanic that gives a character a bonus for trying something that is only just *barely* possible but at the same time increases the negative consiquences if he fails.  This will encourage players to take chances to do something cool :)

I also want to impress the idea that this is simply the character thinking to themself, so that depending on instinct or intelligence, or both, or something like that, there will be a given time compression. Thinking will not be 100% free. Nor will talking, for that matter.

-This is interesting.  Could you talk about it more?

Strength: Capacity to affect change physically through sheer brute force.
Constitution: Capacity to resist physical change to oneself.
Dexterity: Capacity to influence other objects manually via finesse.
Agility: Capacity to influence the way one is oriented relative to self and other things.
Intelligence: Capacity to reason and acquire knowledge rationally.
Wisdom: Capacity to recall data and acquire knowledge empirically.
Charisma: Capacity to affect other people through force of personality.
Instinct: Capacity to react mentally to sudden change and call upon preprogrammed responses.

-This is fine.  I never get caught up in what the stats are for a game anyway.  In the end, they're just value place holders.

Armadillo.
Otter.
Monkey.
Lizard.
Bird.
Gargoyle.

-Are these also the PC races or are they something else?

Peace,

-Troy

[Starblade]

Heya,

Hiyas.

However, I have thought of this: As long as the probabilities stay the same, whatever dice you use, or random number generator, or pulling cards, doesn't matter.

-You wouldn't believe how big of a step that is, Starblade.  That's awesome.  Some people never make it to this realization.  There's one step further, though, that you can go.  I'll write it here,"The dice/cards/randomizers you use in this game directly reinforce what the game is about, otherwise they dilute its content."  Keep that in the back of your mind as we talk about things further.

Since we might have to make a program to track ebb and flow, it makes sense to use a randomizer in this circumstance. Using the computer to calculate stuff is probably better, since there's a lot of stuff that's going to be too complicated to do manually. They will be simple programs that merely assist gameplay, and don't take it over.

This is the hard part. This is where I have to choose between tradition and making my game unique.

-Okay.  Let me just say upfront that there is nothing wrong with using d20.  If ultimately that's the way you decide to go, that's a fine choice in my book.  I'm not saying you have to, I'm just saying it's okay to.  Make sense?

Yeah, it makes sense. However if I am going to publish the game, even if I don't make any money, you understand that I don't want this to be 'just another d20 game'.

Of course, here's another option I've been thinking of: A d4, d6, or d8 for simple 'succeed/fail' rolls, a d10 or d20 for 'horrible/poor/fair/good/excellent' and similar type rolls, a d12 for gateway related things, and a d100 for strategy related rolls, so that each number represents a unique outcome.

-I like lots of different dice, but let's see if we can give them a point here.  If 1-2 is a success on a d4, it's no different from a 1-4 on a d8 or 1-10 on a d20.  So why use different die?  Perhaps it is tied to culture.  Say the number 4 is significant to the Otter Religion.  Therefore it would make sense that they use 1d4 for their rolls.  Say the Armadillo people have 10 seasons on their planet.  They would use a d10.  Extrapolate this further to other parts of the game.  The otters are weak and only do a 1d4 dmg.  the Armadillos are strong, so they do a 1d10.  BUT, the Otters are fast so would roll a 1d4 for their initiative (say the lowest result is best) while the slow armadillos would roll a 1d10.  These are just some random thoughts.  But I'd like to see you alaborate further on the context of all these different die types in your game.

Ah, that's a good idea. Is this in case I decide to use dice, or does it work with a random number generator? Well since it's my game, I guess it's my responsibility to choose. Thanks for your feedback. If the random number generator idea fails, this might be a good one onto which to fall back.

I was also thinking something along the lines of this: a agility vs dexterity roll would determine if you hit and where, and a strength + weapon vs constitution + armor would determine how hard you hit, and whether you pierce the armor, do damage to the armor, or just glance off or bounce back.

-Are these opposed rolls or one roll and then a check against a value?

Well I prefer to only roll when someone is doing something active. So it will probably be a check against a value.

For talent, BTW, I was thinking of combining skills and feats in a way, such that skills would only go up to a certain amount, some high, some low, and on the upper end it goes up to something like 20 or 30, and on the lower end it goes only to 1, meaning either you have it or you don't, and the ones that went up to 1 would be like feats. Also, some talents would be stat based, and some wouldn't be. This is also kinda like skills and feats. However, some talents will be easier to learn, and some more difficult.

-My tendancy is towards consistancy, but for your game this might work.  Definately get some feedback once you start playtesting this.

Alright, I will. :P

Joe and I were discussing the whole GNS system of gaming and he told me that it was Gamist and/or Simulationist, and I suggested that it was possible to make it all three.

I also suggested that, depending on the context, a Drama, Karma, or Fortune mechanic would play into the effet. He then suggested conflict resolution for the game, though earlier I had suggested I wanted a blend and at about that time he said that most games that tried to blend ended up as task resolution.

-These are noble intentions, but as most people who know about Forge theory and have published a game can tell you, it's best to just focus on one aspect of each.  If you're Gamist, go after being a Gamist with everything you've got.  If it's a Drama mechanic you're going to use, make that mechanic matter in every instance it's used.  But honestly, I wouldn't worry about all that stuff right now.  Just concentrait on making a fun game, and then come back and look at theory later.

The thing is, the game is big enough to support all of these. As long as the focus is context based rather than trying to mix all three throughout the whole game, I think I can do it. I intend to make my game epic.

I was thinking, then, to have the player announce what his goals are, and how he hopes to achieve them, and if they are impossible, the GM will tell the player that it is impossible. It may be strictly impossible, meaning nobody could do it, or it may be that the player doesn't have the stats. Or it could be that given the stats, the player only has a CHANCE at doing the action. If the player wants to change the action to one where his stats give assured victory, the player may make another suggestion. Or he may take the chance.

-That's fine. How about making a mechanic that gives a character a bonus for trying something that is only just *barely* possible but at the same time increases the negative consiquences if he fails.  This will encourage players to take chances to do something cool :)

Perhaps there is an emotion attribute to the game, and if you suceed in something you can just barely do, you feel pride, and if you fail, you'll feel a bit foolish. Of course, since you could just barely make it, you'd probably feel good for trying. You might get hurt more, though. As for failing to do something that you were very likely to be able to do, you would definately feel more foolish, and probably get hurt just a little, since if you succeeded, well there's not much pride in doing something you knew you were likely to be able to do anyway. :P

I also want to impress the idea that this is simply the character thinking to themself, so that depending on instinct or intelligence, or both, or something like that, there will be a given time compression. Thinking will not be 100% free. Nor will talking, for that matter.

-This is interesting.  Could you talk about it more?

Sure. Since Joe asked too, I might as well explain. Each second in this game counts. Thoughts take a split second, which means half a second unless you're particularly intelligent/wise. Instinctual actions take no time to process. I have been working on a mechanism that makes each second of the game count. Each second that isn't in a conflict is just a second, and you don't have to worry about opposing actions. However, if there are opposing actions, they'll be doing stuff at exactly the same time as you. A swinging sword only takes a second, however you can swing your sword, or shield, to block it. AT THE SAME TIME. There might be qualifiers, though. If you are early in swinging your sword relative to the other sword swing, you will probably succeed, whereas if you are late in swinging your sword relative to the other sword swing, you will probably fail. You get what I'm saying?

Of course, I only have a general idea of how this will work. The details elude me for the moment, but with enough thinking on my part, and perhaps a bit of collaboration, I might be able to figure out the rest. Basically, though, any unit of time that something happens is similar to a turn. Also, you have stamina in this game. Stamina is to physical things as concentration is to mental things. I'll elaborate on this more later.

Strength: Capacity to affect change physically through sheer brute force.
Constitution: Capacity to resist physical change to oneself.
Dexterity: Capacity to influence other objects manually via finesse.
Agility: Capacity to influence the way one is oriented relative to self and other things.
Intelligence: Capacity to reason and acquire knowledge rationally.
Wisdom: Capacity to recall data and acquire knowledge empirically.
Charisma: Capacity to affect other people through force of personality.
Instinct: Capacity to react mentally to sudden change and call upon preprogrammed responses.

-This is fine.  I never get caught up in what the stats are for a game anyway.  In the end, they're just value place holders.

It's important to know what they are for, so that you know how to use them. However, they do mostly act as value place holders.

Armadillo.
Otter.
Monkey.
Lizard.
Bird.
Gargoyle.

-Are these also the PC races or are they something else?

These are all the PC races, yes. Like them? They each have their own unique stats.

Peace,

-Troy

(...Starblade Riven Darksquall...)

[Troy_Costisick]

Heya,

Since we might have to make a program to track ebb and flow, it makes sense to use a randomizer in this circumstance. Using the computer to calculate stuff is probably better, since there's a lot of stuff that's going to be too complicated to do manually. They will be simple programs that merely assist gameplay, and don't take it over.

-This is way out of my area of expertise, so I'll trust you to make it all work :)

Well I prefer to only roll when someone is doing something active. So it will probably be a check against a value.

-Good, that will save you a lot of trouble.

Perhaps there is an emotion attribute to the game, and if you suceed in something you can just barely do, you feel pride, and if you fail, you'll feel a bit foolish. Of course, since you could just barely make it, you'd probably feel good for trying. You might get hurt more, though. As for failing to do something that you were very likely to be able to do, you would definately feel more foolish, and probably get hurt just a little, since if you succeeded, well there's not much pride in doing something you knew you were likely to be able to do anyway. :P

-This is one of the most interesting things you've said yet.  This is what could really make your game hum.  Emotions- foolishness and pride, are driving factors in the charcter's life.  It also sets up a very nice paralel to the Ebb Flow of magic.  I highly suggest that you incorperate this into your game somehow.

Of course, I only have a general idea of how this will work. The details elude me for the moment, but with enough thinking on my part, and perhaps a bit of collaboration, I might be able to figure out the rest. Basically, though, any unit of time that something happens is similar to a turn. Also, you have stamina in this game. Stamina is to physical things as concentration is to mental things. I'll elaborate on this more later.

-That's fine.  Once you get all the details hammered out, you should make a post about it.

These are all the PC races, yes. Like them?

-Yes.  Very much.  Btw, does a Gargoyle's stone cycle change once he leaves his home planet?

-There's still a couple things I'm a little unclear on.  And it could be that you haven't developed it yet.  But could you tell me the following:

1) Do characters in your game advance? If so, how?

2.) How does the character advancement (or lack thereof) reinforce what your game is about?

Peace,

-Troy

[Starblade]

Heya,

Hiyas.

Since we might have to make a program to track ebb and flow, it makes sense to use a randomizer in this circumstance. Using the computer to calculate stuff is probably better, since there's a lot of stuff that's going to be too complicated to do manually. They will be simple programs that merely assist gameplay, and don't take it over.

-This is way out of my area of expertise, so I'll trust you to make it all work :)

Well I plan on making this game playable on pen and paper, but easier on computer. That reminds me, I was thinking of using three different mechanics. War, Combat, and Duel. They differ in the level of expediency per creature.

War will skim over the details on individual characters and have a different focus, let's say units for now.

Combat will basically be against enemies that aren't as powerful as you, so you could just attack like normal and defeat them, occasionally utilizing some facts of the nature of the battle to assist you.

Duel will mostly be against those as powerful as you, and attention to detail will be key, say you attack someone in the chest, as opposed to attacking someone in the head, that makes a big difference, in easiness to hit and in how damaging it is.

Well I prefer to only roll when someone is doing something active. So it will probably be a check against a value.

-Good, that will save you a lot of trouble.

Perhaps there is an emotion attribute to the game, and if you suceed in something you can just barely do, you feel pride, and if you fail, you'll feel a bit foolish. Of course, since you could just barely make it, you'd probably feel good for trying. You might get hurt more, though. As for failing to do something that you were very likely to be able to do, you would definately feel more foolish, and probably get hurt just a little, since if you succeeded, well there's not much pride in doing something you knew you were likely to be able to do anyway. :P

-This is one of the most interesting things you've said yet.  This is what could really make your game hum.  Emotions- foolishness and pride, are driving factors in the charcter's life.  It also sets up a very nice paralel to the Ebb Flow of magic.  I highly suggest that you incorperate this into your game somehow.

I was making a system where the ebb and flow affects the basic theme of your fighting. It will also not directly affect emotions, but rather it will affect the meaning behind the emotions. I can't think of any exact examples, but basically not only will the words to describe the emotions change, but so will the effect of the emotion itself.

How the emotions affect you depend on their position on a multi dimensional continuous 'grid': The two values I have so far are known as 'morale' and 'discipline'.

Proud would fit in high morale, high discipline.
Angry would fit in high morale, low discipline.
Humbled would fit in low morale, high discipline.
Fearful would fit in low morale, low discipline.

Of course, I only have a general idea of how this will work. The details elude me for the moment, but with enough thinking on my part, and perhaps a bit of collaboration, I might be able to figure out the rest. Basically, though, any unit of time that something happens is similar to a turn. Also, you have stamina in this game. Stamina is to physical things as concentration is to mental things. I'll elaborate on this more later.

-That's fine.  Once you get all the details hammered out, you should make a post about it.

These are all the PC races, yes. Like them?

-Yes.  Very much.  Btw, does a Gargoyle's stone cycle change once he leaves his home planet?

It's hard to say, but I'd say yes. Actually, you've touched upon something here I hadn't thought of. Each race would have magic-assisted racial traits. Part biological, part magical, things that relate to their world but could be done in any world, under the right circumstances.

The gargoyle turning to stone would be akin to the armadillo spewing out fire from the substances he ate.

So, maybe on the gargoyle's planet there are light producing fungi or insects, or perhaps both, or some combination. Like, the insects eat the fungi which causes them to emit light, the fungi go away temporarily, the insects leave, the fungi grow back, the insect come back, and so on. The light warms up their outer body which makes them softer but more easy to move. Of course, this is much less light than is even on the surface of their planet, so they'd be tough, yet slow. They wouldn't be any lighter or heavier though so they could still glide. The magic part might assist in their defense during 'night' and their agility during 'day'.

Likewise, on the armadillo's planet, there are vents that spew out a substance at such a high velocity that it easily mixes in with the oxygen, and causes flames to erupt. This chemical exists underground, and overground, such as in water pools. When you drink water, you drink this chemical. It doesn't hurt you because you're immune to poisons, especially of that sort. So you're capable of spewing it out at high velocities. It may be that without the magic, you wouldn't spew it out at high enough velocity, so it'd just be like throwing up. However, magic helps you spew it out fast enough to cause fire.

-There's still a couple things I'm a little unclear on.  And it could be that you haven't developed it yet.  But could you tell me the following:

Alright.

1) Do characters in your game advance? If so, how?

They don't gain experience points, but they do advance in skills and even in stats. You keep track of the skills they use and the stat used for skills, and the skills increase, but the stats also increase, though more slowly.

2.) How does the character advancement (or lack thereof) reinforce what your game is about?

Character advancement reflects the choices of the characters, and part of the theme of my game is about the consequences of ones actions.

Peace,

-Troy

(...Starblade Riven Darksquall...)

[Troy_Costisick]

Heya,

So, maybe on the gargoyle's planet there are light producing fungi or insects, or perhaps both, or some combination. Like, the insects eat the fungi which causes them to emit light, the fungi go away temporarily, the insects leave, the fungi grow back, the insect come back, and so on. The light warms up their outer body which makes them softer but more easy to move. Of course, this is much less light than is even on the surface of their planet, so they'd be tough, yet slow. They wouldn't be any lighter or heavier though so they could still glide. The magic part might assist in their defense during 'night' and their agility during 'day'.

Likewise, on the armadillo's planet, there are vents that spew out a substance at such a high velocity that it easily mixes in with the oxygen, and causes flames to erupt. This chemical exists underground, and overground, such as in water pools. When you drink water, you drink this chemical. It doesn't hurt you because you're immune to poisons, especially of that sort. So you're capable of spewing it out at high velocities. It may be that without the magic, you wouldn't spew it out at high enough velocity, so it'd just be like throwing up. However, magic helps you spew it out fast enough to cause fire.

-It seems to make sense mechanically.  It seems that magic use is pretty heavy in your game.  Is that a correct assumption?

-Everything you've written seems to be coming along just fine.  You're definately headed towards a playtestable product.  I just have a few more questions to fire at ya. 

1.) What areas of your game receive extra attention and color?  Why?

2.) Which part of your game are you most excited about or interested in? Why?

3.) Where does your game take the players that other games can't, don't, or won't?

Peace,

-Troy

[Starblade]

Heya,

Hiyas.

So, maybe on the gargoyle's planet there are light producing fungi or insects, or perhaps both, or some combination. Like, the insects eat the fungi which causes them to emit light, the fungi go away temporarily, the insects leave, the fungi grow back, the insect come back, and so on. The light warms up their outer body which makes them softer but more easy to move. Of course, this is much less light than is even on the surface of their planet, so they'd be tough, yet slow. They wouldn't be any lighter or heavier though so they could still glide. The magic part might assist in their defense during 'night' and their agility during 'day'.

Likewise, on the armadillo's planet, there are vents that spew out a substance at such a high velocity that it easily mixes in with the oxygen, and causes flames to erupt. This chemical exists underground, and overground, such as in water pools. When you drink water, you drink this chemical. It doesn't hurt you because you're immune to poisons, especially of that sort. So you're capable of spewing it out at high velocities. It may be that without the magic, you wouldn't spew it out at high enough velocity, so it'd just be like throwing up. However, magic helps you spew it out fast enough to cause fire.

-It seems to make sense mechanically.  It seems that magic use is pretty heavy in your game.  Is that a correct assumption?

Magic is a pretty big part of the game, and it's because it is part of the worlds themselves. However, magic isn't contradictory to physics, just sorta an add on due to the whole manaverse. So there's still plenty of science, and some science fiction even.

-Everything you've written seems to be coming along just fine.  You're definately headed towards a playtestable product.  I just have a few more questions to fire at ya. 

Okay, shoot.

1.) What areas of your game receive extra attention and color?  Why?

I'm not sure at this point, but to judge from my current mindframe, it's all pretty much balanced. I haven't lingered on any particular topic too long, but the closest I'm probably going to get is the whole ebb/flow thing. Trying to dictate what impact the ebb and flow has on the environment and on those who use it, and how the ebb and the flow moves, is going to take a lot of effort. As for why, well it was a decision early in the creation of the game to have an ebb and a flow. I was originally not going to have the whole imbalance dilemma, then I was going to have ebb and flow be 'consumed', then I discovered the idea I have now, which is that ebb/flow are moved about.

2.) Which part of your game are you most excited about or interested in? Why?

That would be the ebb/flow, the facilities, and the triple battle mechanic (War/Combat/Duel). The names are pretty apt, though I'm hoping to make them more apt. If you'd like to comment on any of those things here, I suggest you do so. The ebb/flow we've talked about, but since it's going to receive more attention (at least for now) we might as well talk about it here too. It's part of the magic aspect of the game. The facilities, which are the gates and the other things I mentioned, are part of the the science fiction aspect of the game. They were built by the ancients in the same way that mana was woven into the fabric of this universe by the precursors. The triple battle mechanic started as a suggestion to have one mechanic for small battles and one mechanic for big battles, but got split up into three, based on how much detail the battle is going to have. As for why I'm excited/interested, it's because those are the portions I said to myself were going to set this game apart from others.

Oh, wait, that's right. There's one more thing left. The plot. While the general plot isn't going to change, I was thinking that there would be one book which was for general setting, set when the iron age was the most powerful technology, without the nexus and without even the facilities, or with the facilities but with no way to fix them so they're useless, and one book with renassaince technology for the cultures, the nexus and all that, and with a detailed description of what the facilities are supposed to be able to do and what information they give to the players.

As for why I'm interested in them, it's because those are the things that I think and feel make my game unique.

3.) Where does your game take the players that other games can't, don't, or won't?

While the basic settings, which will definately be more typical than the advanced campaign settings, dubbed Gaterunners, won't include it all, like it will be historical and set hundreds of years before the Gaterunners, it will still be quite new, particularly since the part I will be focusing on will be the triple battle mechanic. The ebb and flow will exist, but will be a mystery, and the facilities will be nonfuntional, but that won't detract from the game. The advanced campaign settings, will take you to a six worlds and a space station where magic and science are blended smoothly, something that I don't know if it exists anywhere other than, like, Star Wars, which totally bumbled its force in the Saga, or... um... well I don't know any other sci-fi fantasy settings. I really can't give a better answer than that, because I'm not sure what kind of answer you're looking for.

However, I do know one other thing. I will be blending a lot of things that were not possible to blend in other games because of the simplicity. Basically, the game will be complex, and will take you to a meta realistic world, one that's beautiful, and one that gives the players something to fight for. While it's said the typical game has Gamist, Narrativist, and Simulationist elements but one is prominant, I'm hoping that the way I weave my game together will avoid such dichotomies altogether. In fact, that reminds me. I want to give the feel that somehow, through some means, all cultures evolved at the same rate, which I say is due to the fact that there even are gates and things came through, which means that the in each world the pressure to evolve stemmed from the attacks used by those who were outsiders to each world.

I will also hopefully convey, successfully, the feel of each age, either midieval or age of enlightenment. That's one of my goals. Part of this means getting a guideline book for game masters and players that will help each of them describe the part of the world they control in more detail. While this isn't something new, I was hoping that the fact that the creatures in these worlds are anthropomorphic will make up for the lack of uniqueness in this area of the settings of the game. :P

I hope that wasn't too much for you to read. I guess I did go a bit overboard. I also hope I answered your questions correctly. ^^

Peace,

-Troy

(...Starblade Riven Darksquall...)