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275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4283 Members Latest Member: - otto Most online today: 88 - most online ever: 429 (November 03, 2007, 04:35:43 AM)
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Author Topic: Neel on Nine Worlds  (Read 3677 times)
Vaxalon
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Posts: 1619


« on: April 11, 2006, 04:10:01 AM »

Here's the link:

http://www.20by20room.com/2006/04/more_about_nine.html

Here's the part that caught my eye:

Quote
However, the way conflicts work means that it's very difficult to get an interplay going between the players -- one player wins narration rights, and the other doesn't. If we had more give and take, more interplay, I think it would have been easier to actually roleplay. As things stood, a lot of our narrations were quite sketchy, because it was hard to get really adequate support from the other players.

This has definitely been my experience.

I think Nine Worlds isn't well suited to "in character" roleplaying; the game seems to be a step removed from "actual" roleplaying.

To me, this is something of a flaw.  The resolution mechanic could have used, in my opinion, a Dogs-like back-and-forth stage, where players take turns narrating little pieces of the action, bits of dialogue, etc. that build towards the final resolution.
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"In our game the other night, Joshua's character came in as an improvised thing, but he was crap so he only contributed a d4!"
                                     --Vincent Baker
Matt Snyder
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« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2006, 05:40:51 AM »

Here's the link:

To me, this is something of a flaw.  The resolution mechanic could have used, in my opinion, a Dogs-like back-and-forth stage, where players take turns narrating little pieces of the action, bits of dialogue, etc. that build towards the final resolution.


In my view, the italicized part of that sentence should be to me rather than something.

This is not the first time I've heard this concern. I just have to shrug. The system does exactly what I wanted it to do (so much so, it constantly suprises me). This critique isan expression of personal preference. And that's cool. I respect that. The game is not for everyone.

But, consider, saying the game "should be more like Game X" or whatever strikes me as a good thing. It means Nine Worlds is doing something unlike other games. Whether people enjoy that is up to each individual.

Any notion, however, that Nine Worlds is flawed because it should be like someone's expectation of roleplaying doesn't move me much. Nine Worlds should be like (and is like) what my expectation of a kind of roleplaying is. I'm happy about that!
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Matt Snyder
www.chimera.info

"The future ain't what it used to be."
--Yogi Berra
Vaxalon
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Posts: 1619


« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2006, 05:32:44 PM »

So you meant for it to be difficult to get an interplay between players?
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"In our game the other night, Joshua's character came in as an improvised thing, but he was crap so he only contributed a d4!"
                                     --Vincent Baker
Matt Snyder
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« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2006, 06:03:56 PM »

So you meant for it to be difficult to get an interplay between players?

What? Not at all. The text basically says, "Hey, take suggestions from other players as you narrate." There's a section on how to do this in the Philosophy chapter.

Your question here assumes two things.

1) It's difficult for everyone/most everyone who plays this game (It is not difficult for me in the same way it seems to be for you -- see my recent reply on the 20x20 room)

2) Everyone wants what you, Fred, want in role-playing.

I'm assuming neither of the two. So, I'm not quite seeing what you're asking here.
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Matt Snyder
www.chimera.info

"The future ain't what it used to be."
--Yogi Berra
Valamir
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« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2006, 09:19:58 AM »

Matt you are running head long into what I call "The Myth of Actor Stance"

Fortuneately many of us have busted clear through the utter nonsense and BS that is the Myth of Actor Stance and discovered brave new worlds of fun and excitement on the other side.  Others are still caught in the tangled web of their Actor Stance comfort zone.

The Myth of Actor stance says

1) player interaction is most fun when its done "in-character"
2) rules that don't simply allow players to jabber at each other indefinitely make it hard to be "in-character"
3) The less "in character" you are the less of a "real" role-playing game it is.


Each and every one of those assertions are complete and utter nonsense BS and totally, provably, demonstratably false.

"fun" can be had "in-character" or out...<gasp> even in the same game...hell the same scene.
jabbering in first person does not constitute being "in-character" and not jabbering in first person does not equate to NOT being "in-character"
and the last is just utter swill.


Not only is it purely a matter of personal preference but I'll go so far as to say that most people who claim it as a personal preference are actually mistaking familiarity with preference.

In other words the following statement is IMO true for most gamers:  "no, that isn't your actual preference, that's just what you're most familiar and comfortable with and so you THINK that's what you really enjoy because you haven't tried not playing that way enough to get familiar and comfortable with that"

GAH...I hate and despise the Myth of Actor Stance with a passion.


For the Record, Fred, the above rant was not directed at you as a player, but rather at your perpetuation of this myth in how you presented your question.
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ivan23
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« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2006, 10:07:53 AM »

The idea of "total narrative control for the winner" addresses some issues that I've seen come up in my regular group, where a few people always want to have the last word in any situation. It is, I think, a personal dynamic - many of them have been friends for over fifteen years and seem more like siblings than otherwise.

In the past, they have been able to put such things aside if they're rewarded for doing so with in-game currency: fate chips, drama dice, whatever.

Now I want to see how they react when the ability to make each other sit down and listen is the essential reward for winning a conflict. I'm not sure it will work, but I'm going to be very interested to find out.
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hive_mind
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Posts: 17


« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2006, 11:57:31 AM »

I'd be interested in hearing how your group handles it.  I can't wait to see what happens in a conflict that has multiple winners.
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Keith
Ben Lehman
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« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2006, 01:19:30 AM »

It helps (and when you get to my conflicts in 9W audio, you'll see me do this) if you think of the winner not as the sole author of the aftermath, but as a "mini-GM" for the resolution of the conflict -- everyone contributes, and keeps playing their characters, but the buck stops with the winner.

I play Dust Devils like this, too.

yrs--
--Ben
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ivan23
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« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2006, 07:05:11 AM »

Groovy. Once the new edition is out and in my hands, I'll twist some arms and get an Actual Play out of it.
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doogs19
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Posts: 3


« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2006, 11:28:11 AM »

Love the recordings; thank you for sharing! I am fairly stoked to check it out. :)

And since I haven't seen it posted ... love the "Police" music as the padding.
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Matt Snyder
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« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2006, 12:16:36 PM »


And since I haven't seen it posted ... love the "Police" music as the padding.


Right on. That tune is pretty fitting, once you spot it out. ;)

But, I think that's only on session 1, scene 2, right? I can't remember for sure.
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Matt Snyder
www.chimera.info

"The future ain't what it used to be."
--Yogi Berra
doogs19
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« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2006, 12:41:23 PM »


Right on. That tune is pretty fitting, once you spot it out. ;)

But, I think that's only on session 1, scene 2, right? I can't remember for sure.

I think you're right, but I haven't listened to them all quite yet.

And yes, I had my "Secret Journey" button in high school ...

Just to restate: I think this is a GREAT way for designers to support their new games. Reading about a game is all great, but hearing a nicely editted session, with the great questions from the players (kudos to them, btw), really makes the system pop, you know?
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Vaxalon
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Posts: 1619


« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2006, 04:56:15 PM »

The reason I never spoke as Fell Pakton is that I never found his voice.

You'll hear me speak as Meg now, and we'll see if my desire to speak her words can be supported by the system.
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"In our game the other night, Joshua's character came in as an improvised thing, but he was crap so he only contributed a d4!"
                                     --Vincent Baker
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