Gods - A Capes Hack

[Bret Gillan]

For a long time I've wanted to create a game about world-building, and struggles between competing deities for control over events and creations. I've batted around quite a few ideas for rules and systems, but they often fell flat. So I was talking it over with Jared Sorensen at Dreamation and he gave me this great idea - "Just rip off ideas from games you like." And then it sort of struck me, the Capes system would work magnificently for what I wanted in a game about opposing deities. I batted the idea around with Tony, Capes supplement vs. independent game, and while I was initially leaning towards the latter, the more I right it the more I cannot justify releasing a game that someone else designed, and I just added some things and changed some of the names for concepts.

But still, Capes does a lot of what I really want to do. The ability to easily handle a wide variety of concepts (one player playing a hero in the same scene as someone else is playing an entire empire), and the way the out of character competition emulates the squabbling and competition you see in mythology about gods.

So, this is what I'm doing - I'm writing up my ideas for my Gods Capes-mod. You guys can tell me what you think, and I'll end up fleshing it out as either a for-free text file or, the Gods and Tony willing, some kind of cheap, simple Capes mini-supplement.

So, these are my core ideas:

Scenes as Ages: Each full Scene in a game is an Age in the setting - a time of upheaval and tumult. Each Age is given a name by the player who starts the Scene - the Age of Fire, the Age of War, the Age of Immaculate and Poisonous Scarlet Butterflies. This gives everyone at the table access to an inexhaustible, value-1 Trait based on the name of the Age (Fire, War, Immaculate and Poisonous Scarlet Butterflies). Once all Conflicts in that Age are over, the Age ends and a new one begins, same as normal for Capes.

Click-N-Lock: I like the Click-N-Lock system, and I like the idea of using it in gameplay, so what I'm thinking is that in a given scene, each player has two Click-N-Locks, the lefthand one representing the God and the Power and Influence it wields, and the righthand one representing one of the God's creations that the player wants to emphasize in this scene - a monster, a species, a kingdom, a hero, a concept, a place, anything. From one Age to the next you will play the same God, but focus on different Creations. The creation's traits are one-use expenditures, the God's powers work like Capes superpowers accumulating Debt. Actually, as I'm thinking it, the God's use of powers might want to be kept rare, and so those might be the ones that get spent and exerting control over the creation accumulates Debt. I'll have to ponder it.

Drives: Since this isn't a superhero game, Drives need to be tweaked. I think there can be two types of Drives, more or less represented by the God's personality traits (Angry, Jealous, Benevolent, Hungry) and their specific Domains or areas of influence (Fire, Death, Music). I'm thinking 3 of one, 2 of the other, player's choice. You accumulate Debt in these Drives as usual and Stake the Debt as usual. The Drives and Debt then represent not the God struggling with feelings that it doesn't deserve it's powers, but struggling against the ennui and boredom that a powerful, immortal being would face, pushing it towards extreme actions about conflicts it cares about. Also, the sort of baiting you see in Capes works very well *in* character as the Gods attempt to provoke one another to stave off boredom (which happens when the characters are overdrawn).

Conflicts: One thing I want to add to Conflicts is the ability for the Resolver to alter a Creation. If I win a Conflict over, say, the fate of the Nornam Empire and I say it crumbles into Ruin, I reach over and cross off its Opulent trait and replace it with Ruined. Or, maybe a Conflict could let you steal a Creation from a rival God's pile-o-creations.

I have some other ideas about how to weave the core Capes concepts into a mythological, world-building game, but I wanted to get some feedback, see if anyone thought it cool, and if there were ideas on moving forward with it. Like I said, at the very least I think I'll flesh it out as a for-free text file to throw up on my web site.

Thanks for reading, folks.

[Vaxalon]

Is the impermanence of narration a bug or a feature for you in this context?

[TonyLB]

Like I said, at the very least I think I'll flesh it out as a for-free text file to throw up on my web site.

I am so totally going to steal your "for-free text file," gussy it up, and print copies crediting you as the author.  Then I'm going to sell them, take whatever percentage I freakin' well feel like, and send you checks against your will.

[Bret Gillan]

Is the impermanence of narration a bug or a feature for you in this context?

Honestly, it's not something I consider a big enough deal to think of as either a bug or a feature. Once something is narrated ("Sir Vaxalon slays the Dragon Tony") it can't be unnarrated ("Except he didn't."). To even try would bring down the wrath of the group (or in my game, at the very least the wrath of me). You can narrate undoing the effects of a narration, but if it was significantly egregious, then popcorn-throwing is in order, and I'd likely urge the person trying to narrate it to create it as a Conflict instead, because there'd be a Hell of a fight.

So, like I said, I don't really think it contributes to or detracts from what I want out of the hack because I don't see it as a significant issue. I mean, if I'm playing D&D and I kill the Big Bad in a climactic battle, there's nothing to stop the DM from saying one of his henchmen later resurrects him.

[Bret Gillan]

I am so totally going to steal your "for-free text file," gussy it up, and print copies crediting you as the author.  Then I'm going to sell them, take whatever percentage I freakin' well feel like, and send you checks against your will.

I'd be very interested in whipping it up as a Capes mini-supplement, but I doubt my ability to produce a high enough word count to make it more than a few pages. I'll see what I can crank out, though, now that I have a better idea of what I'm trying to do. I see my hack going over new rules, new interpretations of old rules, and game advice/tips & tricks. And of course, playtesting will probably produce more content.

But I'd definitely be willing to move forward with this as an official, for-sale mini-supplement if, when it's all said and done, you think it'd be worth it.

[Andrew Cooper]

If he doesn't want the checks... I'll take them.

[Hans]

Conflicts: One thing I want to add to Conflicts is the ability for the Resolver to alter a Creation. If I win a Conflict over, say, the fate of the Nornam Empire and I say it crumbles into Ruin, I reach over and cross off its Opulent trait and replace it with Ruined. Or, maybe a Conflict could let you steal a Creation from a rival God's pile-o-creations.

I have some other ideas about how to weave the core Capes concepts into a mythological, world-building game, but I wanted to get some feedback, see if anyone thought it cool, and if there were ideas on moving forward with it. Like I said, at the very least I think I'll flesh it out as a for-free text file to throw up on my web site.

Thanks for reading, folks.

I remember you and I talked about this in another context, Bret.  I absolutely love this idea as a Capes mod.

Some suggestions/questions:

* It seems that one thing the game could thrive on would be more creations out on the table than there would usually be characters on the table in a usual game of superhero Capes.  This is because, if you go with the "conflicts can change creations" idea, the creations form the terrain, in a sense, on which the game takes place.  The more interesting and varied the terrain, the better.  Mechanically encouraging people to put out creations that then become targets for change may be of value.  May I suggest that splitting the actual interlocking of the click and locks might be interesting?  That is, you get one (and only one) half sheet for a God, but can have multiple half sheet creations (one or two for free, and one or two per story token paid). 

* Another suggestion on creations, if you implement the "conflicts can change creations" idea.  I suggest that it might be fun to have "permanent creations" and "temporary creations".  (The terminology is bad and needs thought).  What I mean by this is that some creations (things like cities, nations, magic swords, mystical trees, whatever) stay on the table even if they are unplayed during this particular age.  So, if someone creates the "Nordnam Empire" as a permanent creation, it stays on the table for the entire game.  This would allow even unplayed creations to be fought over through conflicts.  Temporary creations are creations who will not survive past the end of an Age, and cannot be brought back in later ages.

* This might also lead to another interesting concept, which is that there is a limit on the number of creations that can be on the table at once (3 X the number of players?).  The only way to get rid of one is through a conflict, which then allows a new creation.  So, lets say I want to introduce "the Hordes of Tangal" as a creation, I might have to resolve a conflict such as "Event: The Nordnam Empire dissapears into the depths of time" or something, to be able to take the Nordnam Empire (now ruined) completely off the table. 

* Would you find it interesting if the conflicts somehow have to relate back to the theme of the age?  That is, if it is the Age of Fire, then the conflicts would have to be things like "Event: City of Miravel in flames", "Goal: Klar forges the Sword of Dreams", "Goal: Tinki extinguishes the Hearthfire", etc.

* Personally, I like the idea of Creation powers being the ones that generate debt.  This means that much of the God's work will be done through his/her/its creations.  This seems thematically stronger to me.  Playtesting would be VERY important, though, because you may need to make other adjustments (such as in drive strength) to account for the fact that under these rules a God can't get more check off abilities, only powered ones.  As has been said elsewhere, check off abilities are much more useful than they first appear to be because are times when you DON'T want more debt.  OR, you could allow the player to bring in "lesser" God's as a source of more check off abilities through story tokens.

* I guarantee you that my posse up here in Canada would love to playtest for you once you have a playable draft.

[Chris Peterson]

I like this game idea, too. It seems like a good fit for the Capes system. It reminds me of Avalon Hill's (er, WotC's) Risk Godstorm:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=ah/prod/riskgodstorm

[Zamiel]

I actually made a different approach to this concept on my blog ([url]http://zamiel.livejournal.com/1001753.html[/url)), but never really got around to fleshing it out the way I'd really like.

It occurs to me that you have an obvious solution to the issue of Drives and such that I'd like to develop here:

The Gods have a coin. Its not mithril nor iron nor gold, but favours gained and favours owed. A God cannot owe favours to himself, but when his creatures exert themselves on his part for the God's end, there is a debt accrued. When those ends see fruition, those ends can see favours made.

Gods should use the Undifferentiated Debt Pool mechanic; this represents their owed debt out in the world. When they gain five Debts, their owed favours start interfering with one another and they lose power in their current ends (the highest die is rolled down). Each Debt is tagged with who it was earned on behalf of, and should be used in repayment to that entity. (This, in effect, replaces Drives; you could create a dynamic list of Drives, maximum  number being 5, but its just easier to use the UDP.)

Likewise, Inspirations are Favours owed to the God. You can certainly end up owing some entity in pursuit of an end which benefits them (ie. the entity uses its powers in behalf of the God on a Conflict, which the God then wins). Those Favours are coloured by the ends which birthed them.

Entities are the only ones that can generate Debt (ie. they have Powers, not Gods), as they are the only things that can be directly owed. Entities can be attached to only one God at a time, but many entities are composite things, and other aspects of their being can be owned by another God during an Age.

Exempli gratia:

Alex plays the God of Broken Things, with blockable Abilities like "Matter Withers" and "Creation of Decay" and blockable Styles like "Barren Winters". He pulls from the character pool the City of Armath, with Powers like "Army of Armath" and "Sorcerer-King."

Tony plays the Goddess of the Dark (it's a very dire setting) who sports "Bring Darkness" and "Kill Babies," and really, really wants to needle Alex for resources, so he creates The Cult of Black Mothers in Armath, a secret subculture devoted to the worship of the GotD, and gives them "Subvert Politics" and "Betray."

It's going to be a very bad Age for Armath.

Alex sets the Age of Obsidian Nightmares (I told you it was dire), and they do some free play with Armath feeling the age of darkness coming upon it, and then Alex busts out the Goal: The Cult of Black Mothers is exposed! The Sorcerer-King begins hunting for the cult, which puts Broken into debt to him (and generates a point of Debt), Darkness reacts with a threat to the city and the first sucking child of every mother dies in their arms (I told you it was dark), when Broken reacts with an odour of rot and decay that surrounds each of the cultists (which costs no Debt, because its a blockable, "Create Decay").

And so on.

The Conflict eventually resolves for Broken, who changes the Cult's "Concealed" trait to "Exposed" and gathers a few Favours on behalf of the City of Armath, as well a bit of Debt as regards them.

Letting a Story Token bring in an Entity (just the Lock half) works just fine in this case because all Entities generate Debt when used, which then drives further Conflicts.

Thoughts?

[Judd]

Bret,

Don't sweat the word-count.

The boss isn't in the next room, demanding a new supplement.  It just doesn't matter.

Does it take you an evening of writing and you just don't feel good charging for it?  Put it online for free.

Does it take you time and effort that you think is valuable and you feel it is worth some money...charge money for it.  Charge a dollar, charge whatever you think it is worth.

After 1st Quest, mayhaps we should give this sucker a play-test this summer?

[Bret Gillan]

Hey everyone, thanks for the thoughts and comments. I'm pretty much gonna chill until I have something written up to show y'all. And then, playtesting and revising!

[dunlaing]

I'm concerned that ages might go by too fast. It might be something to keep an eye on during playtesting. It's ok for a Capes scene to last two pages and end, but an entire Age of a world? --maybe allow the Gods to each get a free conflict in the first turn of an age?

[Chris Peterson]

I'm concerned that ages might go by too fast. It might be something to keep an eye on during playtesting. It's ok for a Capes scene to last two pages and end, but an entire Age of a world? --maybe allow the Gods to each get a free conflict in the first turn of an age?

As Capes breaks games into scenes and pages, how would one break up Ages? The Wikipedia article about geologic time scales says Eons > Periods > Epochs > Stages, but where might an Age fit in?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologic_time_scale

[Kai_lord]

As Capes breaks games into scenes and pages, how would one break up Ages? The Wikipedia article about geologic time scales says Eons > Periods > Epochs > Stages, but where might an Age fit in?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologic_time_scale

Ages as a time period is a mythological concept or a archological one. They're all about thematic similarties during periods of human activity. For instance - in our own history, we have the Stone Age, the Bronze Age, the Iron Age, and so on. In Greek myth, you have (according to one interpertation) The Age of Gods, the Age of Gods and Men, the Age of Heroes, and the Age of Mortals.

Here's a thought on how to handle ages - An age can consist of multiple scenes. An age only comes to an end when a conflict hits the table that would end the age. That way you are certiant that an age has an approprate mythic end. It also gives enough time for an age to be suitablely epic. Perhaps it would be best to rename scenes into myths. So in the Greek Age of Heroes, you might have a myth "The Twelve Labors of Heracles."

[Bret Gillan]

As Capes breaks games into scenes and pages, how would one break up Ages? The Wikipedia article about geologic time scales says Eons > Periods > Epochs > Stages, but where might an Age fit in?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologic_time_scale

You guys are thinking about this too much. An Age could be anywhere from a couple of months to a lifetime to the birth and death of a star. The scope of the game will be very fluid (spanning anything from a continent to a universe to multiple dimensions, depending on the player group preferences). While I'm not opposed to Kai_lord's idea, I'm going to get some Actual Play under my belt first before I worry about making sure an Age has an "appropriate mythic end." I appreciate everyone's input, advice, and enthusiasm, and I'll be sure to come back to it once I start bumping into problems in play, but I'm not going to try and fix problems that haven't actually come up through Actual Play.

Anyhow, I have a playtest-able write-up that I churned out today over way too much coffee. It's *extremely* slim because I expect to do a lot more fiddling when I get some Actual Play done, and I also plan on writing up advice on running a Gods/Capes game as I tackle problems in play. I'm going to be taking small steps away from Capes at a time as far as rules alterations are concerned, rather than flinging myself into a huge mess of rules changes and then sifting through them.

So this is my plan: I'm going to playtest it a couple of times with my group, tinkering some between sessions. Once I get through a handful of sessions, I'll write up a second revision and release it into the wild. I could be convinced to send you what I have right now for playtesting, but since the changes are minor and untested, I don't want to waste anyone's time. So there's my caveat.

Thanks again everyone, and I will keep y'all posted.