[Monster Rules] An Outside Playtest

[Bill Masek]

Intro:

Over the past few years I've gotten into miniature games.  I have played a number of HeroClix tournaments and done fairly well.  I've collected a fair amount of HeroScape and Navia Dratp and dabbled in a variety of others.

But I have yet to find a good universal miniatures system.  So I was very excited when read about Monster Rules.  Over the past week I've been reading, studying and analyzing the 130+ page rule book.  On Monday I have the opportunity to run my first play test.

We had 3 players:  Me, my little brother and a good friend of mine.  Since we were all superhero fans I decided to make the game supers.  My little brother didn't have access to an internet connection which could download the massive 14 MB rule book in a reasonable amount of time so I made his characters for him.


The Players/Characters:

My brother played The Mad Monarch and his minions.  The Mad Monarch ruled over his domain of four city blocks with an iron mitten.  He had the power to twist reality to his madness and delighted in driving others insane.

My friend played the local super heroes who were trying to thwart the Mad Monarch's plans.

I played The Butcher, a heavy-hitter-for-hire with little brains and bad BO, and his new, never before seen master and allies.

The "Story" Setup:

It was the day before the Mad Monarch's Birthday and he needed party favors.  So he decided to steal valuables from the city to distribute across his domain the next day.  The heroes of the city have rallied to defend it.  Mean while, an unknown, malevolent power has decided to exploit the chaos and loot the innocent.


The set up:

I set up a couple of boxes and bottles to represent buildings and sprinkled coins (mostly pennies, several nickels, a few dimes and one quarter) across the map.  I told my friend that me and my brother were on the same side and his goal was to stop us from taking as much loot as possible.  I then whispered to my brother that we were in fact not on the same side and were competing against each other.  The game would last five rounds, with who ever had the most value in currency at the end being the winner.  (All currency left on the game board was counted towards my friends points, but he could not collect it.)


The builds:

My brother had 3 heroes and a plethora of minions of various strengths.  The Heroes were Mad Monarch (who was very strong on defense, decent at attacking, could summon many minions as well as another hero and had a huge area extremely potent control attack that drove everyone within a 16" area insane), Jestress (his lovable side kick who cost a lot less and kicked a lot of butt and could seduce those who attacked her) and the Insane Investigator (who was fairly weak over all, but could become more powerful the more minions she had surrounding her).  This build was worth 1000 points.

My friend had 2 heroes, a champion and a few low powered minions.  The Champion was a very powerful attacker and controller but lacked defense and area of effect powers.  One of the heroes was a speedster and the last one some kind of secret agent.  I didn't see their cards, but they each hit moderately hard.  This build was worth 2000 points.

My team was going to be two heroes and 15 minions.  Unfortunately my minions were all made out of paper and it started to sprinkle, so I switched them to my Champion who was comparably priced.  The Champion was She Who is Heaven and Bliss who had very good defense, very good attack and an insane area of effect allure/dominate power.  The Butcher was a hero with very good defense and very good attack.  Mentrais was the last hero who had area of effect mind blanking powers and could transform into a massive whirlwind.  This build was worth 1000 points.

All of my and my brother's heroes had a fairly hefty travel power.  Only my friend's speedster could travel more then 4" a turn.


Play:

The game began with the Mad Monarch appearing on top of a building and driving my party insane.  I retaliated with the butcher, broke the dominate and hit the Mad Monarch for a lot of damage.  At this point it was clear to my friend that we were not on the same team.  We both spend most of our resources for the first two turns battling each other on top of the building while my friend moved into a defensive position.  Then I killed the Mad Monarch and both I and my brother shifted our focus from beating each other to a pulp to good old fashioned theft.

My friend kept the most valuable currency protected while my brother split up his minions to go after it.  Many of them died with loot in their hands (courtesy of my friend), two of which held the quarter but were not able to move it.  I was able to put most of his minions out of commission for a few turns with a massive allure from She Who is Heaven and Bliss.  I then proceeded to steal the quarter and several other large piece of currency.  In the end I had 45 cents, my brother had 38 cents and my friend had around 25.


Most Memorable Moment:

She Who is Heaven and Bliss held most of the Mad Monarch's forces wrapped in awe, at the mercy of her very whims.  No one had managed to damage She Who is Heaven and Bliss thus far that game despite many attempts and it looked like my brothers forces were out for the count.

So I moved She Who is Heaven and Bliss to the high ground to use her cosmic beauty to sway the Jestress and the rest of my brother's minions.

Jestress had a little flirtation aura on, but I figured it was no big deal.  The effect value was only 2d12 vs my defense against it which was 2d10+2d6.

As She Who is Heaven and Bliss spread the light of her beauty across city, a beauty beyond the comprehension of mere mortals, she saw the Jestress and for a brief moment this being who had witness the birth and death of planets, spread harmony and pleasure through the distant cosmos and flirted with Eternity herself, knew rapture.

All of a sudden all of the characters under her control reverted back to my little brother.  The game was on again.


Conclusion:

Over all the game was a lot of fun.  My favorite part was creating the miniatures.  Come on, in how many of these games can you play a Cosmic Entity?  The battle to dominate others characters and break ones own characters out of the control of others was also very nice.

The game was not without its flaws, however.  I ignored many of the more complex rules such as facing and still found the game to require my group to spend to much time negotiating the mechanics.  There are some issues with dominance strategies, clarity and more.

I will give my impressions of the system tomorrow.  It is too late now and, if you have read this far, you've already read more then enough for one post.

[mratomek]

Bill,

Thanks for the post and for running a game. I look forward to any criticisms and suggestions you have. Sounds like a fun scenario. About how long did the game last? With that many characters--4,000 pts on the board--that's just a huge game.

MrAtomek

[Bill Masek]

Analysis

The Good:

-The versatility built into Monster Rule's character creation is a blast.  I could honestly see this system used in a plethora of genres and cross-genre games.

-The pages of the rule book itself look beautiful and well laid out.

-I had a lot of fun playing Monster Rules and look forward to playing it again.

The Bad:

The Character Sheets:

We had a difficult time interpreting the character sheets mid-game.  I had gone out of my way to memorize all of the different special abilities and rules before we started, but several times the complexity of the character sheet still caught us up.

A Monster Rules character might look like this:

Mad Monarch

Hero
Cost:  300

Strength: 12
Agility:  12
Intelligence:  7
Perception:  0
Resolve:  12
Presence:  12

Action:  3
Size:  1
Life:  12
Move:  4 (12 w/ Dimensional Travel)
Spirit:  Chaos

12 Insanity Ry + Pr (Sk):  Equipment, Short Range, Power Down, Single Shot, Mass x12, Bullseye + 1, Confident + 1, Lawless + 1, Overpower + 1, Prodigy +1, Trained +1)

12 Tommy Gun Tg + Pr (Sk):  Equipment, Random, Rapid Fire

10 Summon Mook Ar + Pr (Sk): Power Down, Single Shot

5 Summon Mook Ar + Pr (Sk): Power Down, Single Shot

10 Summon Lady of the Court Ar + Pr (Sk): Power Down, Single Shot

5 Summon Lady of the Court Ar + Pr (Sk): Power Down, Single Shot

5 Summon Delusion Ar + Pr (Sk):  Power Down, Single Shot, Equipment

12 Absorb Damage Sf + Rs (Ps):  Energize, Healing Force

12 Absorb Effect Sf + Rs (Ps):  Energize

12 Shape Shift:  Holiday Monarch Sf + Rs (Ps)

12 Dimensional Travel Sf + Rs (Ps):  Nick of Time

Tactical

Disabled:  Perception

I translated all of my brother's characters into an easier to understand format before the game began.  Here is what Mad Monarch looked like:

Mad Monarch

Hero
Cost:  300

Action:  3
Life:  12
Move:  12
Spirit:  Chaos

Powers:

Detonate the "Happy" Gas Bombs!:  A massive gas attack that drives everyone in a huge area insane.  Choose a 12" by 12" area which starts up to 6" away from this character.  Everyone in that area is effected.  Roll 2d12 + 6 against their effect defense power or stat.  Everyone who fails goes insane.  On their turn they attack others at random if they can not snap out of it.  This power may only be used 1 time per turn.

Blam blam blam...:  Sometimes its fun to just blow people away with automatic weapons.  Roll 2d12 against target's damage defense power or stat.  If you roll a 1 your gun jams and you have to take the rest of the action to fix it.  If you roll a 12 you deal an extra point of damage.  If you roll both, your gun backfires, stunning you.  If this happens, choose offense or defense.  You roll 1d12 less on the next action if it is the type of action your declared.  (Jams and backfires do not prevent you from using this attack again.) If you hit your target increase the damage you do 50% rounded down.

Call Mooks:  Allows you to summon a single mook (minion).  You may have up to 3 mooks summoned by this ability at one time but may only summon one per round.

Call Lady of the Court:  Allows you to summon a single lady of the court (minion).  You may have up to 3 summoned by this ability at any one time but may only summon one per round.

Shared Delusion:  You have a pet monster.  This power just allows others to see it.  Allows you to summon 1 delusion (hero).  You may only have 1 horror at one time.

Untouchable:  You know you can't be hurt.  Thus others can't hurt you.  When ever you need to make a defense against damage, roll 2d12 against it.  If you succeed, gain +1 to your next action and you are healed 1 damage.

Beyond the Pale:  You are insane.  Nothing can touch your mind in this maddened state.  Roll 2d12 against all effect abilities.  If you succeed, gain +1 to your next action.

Go On a Holiday:  One of the advantages of being insane is you can take your vacations when ever you want, even the middle of combat.  Transform into the Holiday Monarch.  Costs 2 actions.

Just Somewhere Else:  You don't walk places.  Places walk to you.  You can instantly teleport up to 12" as a single movement action.

Unpredictable:  No one knows when or what you will do.  You may take your turn at any time, even if it was supposed to be someone else's turn.  You may not stop a character in the middle of their turn and must wait until the initiative winning character moves, however.

Insane:  You have... issues interacting with the real world.  You can never roll Perception.  Ever.  Period.

Strength: 1d12
Agility:  1d12
Intelligence:  1d8
Perception:  N/A
Resolve:  1d12
Presence:  1d12

I showed my little brother the "official" sheets for his characters and he shook his head and said he didn't understand them.  He was fine because I had translated them before hand.  I was fine because I play way to many games had been studying the rule book and building characters for the past week.  My friend was not so lucky.  All he had were the numbers.  When ever he made an action he had to deduce the dice value from the point value for two stats then add them together.  He eventually gave up and outsourced the job to me.  Even I had a bit of difficulty making the translation mid game.

The Character Sheets are not accessible enough.  Terms like "Ry + Pr" mean nothing to those who have not studied the rules a heavily and will need to be looked up mid game by the average gamer.  Mid term translation is clunky.  And though the plethora of abilities make the game a lot more fun, they also mean a lot more information will need to be looked up.  Even the most basic game will require at least one player to have intensely studied the rules in order to prevent the game from grinding to an abrupt halt due to complexity issues weighing it down.

Needs to be Streamlined

This game has a lot of different powers.  Hundreds of them.  On top of that there are hundreds of special abilities which can augment these powers.  However, most of these powers are either exact copies or near copies of each other.  For example, the Fire power is identical to the Cosmic Energy power which is identical to the Gasses power.  The only difference is the name.  The control powers are a little bit varied, but most simply stop the effected characters.  The special abilities suffer from the same problem.  Most of them give a +1 to a powers roll.  The only difference between them is the prerequisite to put it in the power.  Dispersed throughout the repeated powers are a few interesting and unique ones, like Leadership or Heroic Revival.  But these few are hard to notice over the endlessly repeated power clones.

This is probably the easiest problem to solve.  All Matt needs to do is stream line the system a bit.  Create a generic attack power.  Force players to assign each a type (Electricity, Gasses, White Fire, etc) to all powers which it would be appropriate for.  For control powers, have one basic control power that stops effected minions.    For both, let players buy power specific special abilities (which the game already has) for a +cost/pl or a simple +cost which increase its effectiveness.  Perhaps for +2/pl on one of the control powers you could take control of the effected minion.  For the +1 abilities, merge them all into one big ability and put a cap on how large a character can make it.  This would make the make the rules a lot easier to read and easier to understand mid play.

Also, let the players define the flavor of the ability.  Let them name it.  It's a minor thing, but adds to flavor.

Example:

16 Allure Ry + Pr (Dm): Enslave
7 (1d8) Indifference Me + Rs (Su)
12 (1d12) Confusion Ry + In (Ps)
12 Insanity Ry + Pr (Sk)

vs

Divine Beauty 16:  Range dominate (control) 1d10+1d6
Blank Mind 7:  Melee dominate 1d8
Consume Thoughts 11:  Range dominate 1d12
Detonate the "Happy" Gas Bombs! 12:  Range dominate (confuse) 1d12

In the first set you would need to look up 4 different abilities and 6 different terms.  In the bellow you would only need to look up one ability and its associated sub abilities.  You will notice that I did not add associated attributes.  I will explain why in the next segment.

Other Complexity Issues:

To be honest, I'd like to see the whole attribute system removed.  Its one thing when you are trying to negotiate stats and abilities with one character.  It is a whole other issues when trying to do it with 3 or more.  The stats add very little to the game.  They provide a base point when a character has no specific ability to cover an action, and two of them (Strength and Resolve) determine the character's life score and fatality rolls.  Other then that they simply augment abilities.

The base point should be determined by character type.  Minions have a d4, heroes a d6 and champions a d8.

Life should be purchased.  A cost of 4/point seems about right.

Characters should have a derived ability called Fatality, which is determined by dice of the size that corresponds to that player's life.

Abilities be made more expensive (a 50% to 100% increase seems appropriate) and instead of rolling the ability + stat, just roll two dice which correspond to the appropriate PL.  If the power is effected by something which would make it so it could not be stacked with another power in the current rules, instead drop it to one dice.

With all the different numbers, powers and abilities to keep track of, I don't want to imagine what would have happened if I had tried to play with Lines of Communication, Facing or Surprise.  These rules strike me as unnecessary and only serve to add complexity to a game which is innately complex due to its universal nature.

Minions

I loved them when I read about them in the rules and was severely disappointed when I saw them in play.  They just can't hurt anything.  If you require minions to take 2 damage to die, then they can't even hurt each other.  I played it so they had to flip a coin for each damage taken and died if one landed on heads or instantly died from 3 damage.  This worked very nicely for minion survivability.  But they couldn't actually do anything.  We had battalions of minions blasting away at heroes and never did a single point of damage go through.  Watching them fight my champion was a joke.

The Questionable:

The following is not necessarily a problem, but areas which need to be considered.

There is absolutely no reason why every single non-minion character (and minions who exist for reasons other then leadership) should not have at least 1 of each of the following:  A travel power, a defense against damage attacks, a defense against effect attacks and a damaging attack, all at their max level or -1 from it.

There is no reason for heroes and champions not to hit the PL cap for all of their powers.

Both statements are true because abilities are very cheep to purchase and improve until they hit their cap, then they become very expensive to raise.  The attack power light costs 1/pl until you hit cap, after which it costs 25/pl.

Short range powers that can be used at point blank range are always cheaper then melee powers.

There is no reason to purchase single shot without power down, or one shot without both single shot and power down.

If a character takes the disabled defect, then there is no reason not to give all of their powers the drain defect for the disabled stat.

Power defects make the ability exponentially cheaper, where each positive power special abilities a finite amount larger.

[mratomek]

Thanks, Bill. I am digesting your comments. I am very interested in some of your posting.

Will respond tonight.

MrAtomek.

[mratomek]

On the complexity of the power listings. This has been a concern of mine. A basic power listing my look like:

12 Brawl Me, +St (Sk): Combo

Meaning a PL 12 Brawl power used at Melee range that stacks with Strength has a Skill source and a Combo special ability. Perhaps writing it out as

12 Brawl + Strength (Melee)(Skill): Combo

Would be better. I also have thought quite a bit about looking more into the effects of the power, versus a specific power and allowing the players to name them. For example,

Bone Crusher: 12 Damage (Brawl) + Strength (Melee)(Skill): Improved + 1, Knockout
Flame Blast: 12 Damage (Fire) + Agility (Ranged)(Mutation): Improved +2, Blast x3, Deadly

versus how they are now...

12 Brawl Me, +St (Sk): +1 Strike, Knockout
12 Fire Trg, +Ag (Mu): +2 Charged, Blast x3, Deadly

Effect powers would be something like:

Cripple (Attribute or Power can't be stacked)
Weaken (Reduce total by Half)
Consumed (Cannot attack)

You get the idea.

I suppose general terms would be a lot easier to deal with--greatly reducing the powers section which is okay. And could also be applied to a great extent to special abilities.

Hmmm.

I think I will create an alternate powers/special abilities erata pages that are more generic, and describe more of the effect than the specific power and see if that is more useful


Furthermore, I have already implemented a change to ranges, reducing Touch & Melee powers to just Melee (Me); and reducing Ray & Target powers to just Ranged (Rng).

[mratomek]

"Abilities be made more expensive (a 50% to 100% increase seems appropriate) and instead of rolling the ability + stat, just roll two dice which correspond to the appropriate PL.  If the power is effected by something which would make it so it could not be stacked with another power in the current rules, instead drop it to one dice."

I like the attribute system, because it offers flexiblity when creating a character. A character could be super strong(PL12) but inept at combat (Brawl PL 4), and still, due to his strength, be effective. Or he could have a relatively normal Strength (PL 5) but be a superior martial artist (Brawl PL 10).

There is also a strateby behind selected which attributes stack with which powers that can be exploited in game play. For example, if a player chooses to stack all his powers with Agility, then all you need to do is cripple Agility to essentially take out the character.

However, I do think I could simplify the character stat sheet at least. Remove all the abbreviations.

I also think it is nice to have default attributes for basic rolls. It has come up in several games.

[mratomek]

>>Minions

I loved them when I read about them in the rules and was severely disappointed when I saw them in play.  They just can't hurt anything.  If you require minions to take 2 damage to die, then they can't even hurt each other.  I played it so they had to flip a coin for each damage taken and died if one landed on heads or instantly died from 3 damage.  This worked very nicely for minion survivability.  But they couldn't actually do anything.  We had battalions of minions blasting away at heroes and never did a single point of damage go through.  Watching them fight my champion was a joke.<<

Minions are super weak goons and more generic character. Every time they are hit, they have to make a Fatality Roll and can automatically die if hit for 2 more wounds.

Consider using lower-cost Hero characters for lackeys. They can actually pack the punch you need to hit a hero or champion more frequently, and if you don't use a lot of special abilities, they are relatively cheep.

But I do think it needs to be re-examined. Perhaps allowing them to purchase PL up to 12, but still be weakened by the 2-hit Elimination wound.

[mratomek]

"There is absolutely no reason why every single non-minion character (and minions who exist for reasons other then leadership) should not have at least 1 of each of the following:  A travel power, a defense against damage attacks, a defense against effect attacks and a damaging attack, all at their max level or -1 from it.

There is no reason for heroes and champions not to hit the PL cap for all of their powers.

Both statements are true because abilities are very cheep to purchase and improve until they hit their cap, then they become very expensive to raise.  The attack power light costs 1/pl until you hit cap, after which it costs 25/pl."

True. I have thought about altering the point costs a bit to make players commit to a few powers and then be left with a few other, weaker powers. I might have to explore this.


Short range powers that can be used at point blank range are always cheaper then melee powers.

And a Melee power can be used with a Throw special ability for limited ranged combat. Its a point balance issue.


There is no reason to purchase single shot without power down, or one shot without both single shot and power down.

The maximum you can reduce an individual power listing's cost is by half, regardless of how many drawbacks you purchase. That might be too crappy of a rule.

If a character takes the disabled defect, then there is no reason not to give all of their powers the drain defect for the disabled stat.

Disability--I think that's what you are talking about--does not allow you to stack the identified attribute with any powers.

Power defects make the ability exponentially cheaper, where each positive power special abilities a finite amount larger.
But they usually have a fairly severe drawback. Need to balance those points better.

[Bill Masek]

I like the attribute system, because it offers flexiblity when creating a character. A character could be super strong (PL12) but inept at combat (Brawl PL 4), and still, due to his strength, be effective. Or he could have a relatively normal Strength (PL 5) but be a superior martial artist (Brawl PL 10).

While this can be cool flavor wise, it will not be a very common thing for players to do.  It is pretty much a waste of points to not max out the abilities actually plan to use and keep the rest at 0.  Strength and Resolve should always be high (for life) with possibly agility for the first move, use ranged damage attacks or to diversify.  None of the others are really needed.

The flavor would be a lot stronger if you did not make the dominance strategy to max out the same 2-3 stats for every character.  You can do this and reduce your complexity by a lot by removing stats.

There is also a strategy behind selected which attributes stack with which powers that can be exploited in game play. For example, if a player chooses to stack all his powers with Agility, then all you need to do is cripple Agility to essentially take out the character.

This is true.  Bear in mind, however, that all characters should have maxed out Strength and Resolve.  This means they can easily diversify their power sets.  Strength has all melee attacks and resolve has absorb and many other great defenses.  Resolve also has access to a variety of effect powers and Strength has access to almost every defensive power Resolve does not.  With agility maxed out as well you still only have 3 stats, but more diversity then you need.

When it comes to diversity, the real issues is number of redundant abilities.  If I have 1 damage defensive ability and its relevant stat is crippled the character is very vulnerable.  Stat diversification is only needed if the player plans on building redundant abilities anyway.  Since this is the case, you can get just as much value from making cripple nerf a power instead of that power's associated ability.

I also think it is nice to have default attributes for basic rolls. It has come up in several games

I will go as far as to say that you need default rolls.  However, I do not see why they need to be based off of attributes.  They are going to be lousy no matter how good you are.  It would be simpler and more elegant in play to simply give each character type a default score for all rolls they do not have an associated ability for.

Minions are super weak goons and more generic character. Every time they are hit, they have to make a Fatality Roll and can automatically die if hit for 2 more wounds.

Instead of a fatality roll, flip a coin.  It gives the odds you want and makes it so the tiny minion with no strength and resolve is NOT better at surviving damage then the huge strong minion with a good resolve.

Consider using lower-cost Hero characters for lackeys. They can actually pack the punch you need to hit a hero or champion more frequently, and if you don't use a lot of special abilities, they are relatively cheep.

Jestress was a 150 pt hero and I she seduced She Who is Heaven and Bliss who was a Champion.  No no no, I do not underestimate the 150 point hero.  But then again you can't have an army of them swarming the battle field and dying like flies.

But I do think it needs to be re-examined. Perhaps allowing them to purchase PL up to 12, but still be weakened by the 2-hit Elimination wound.

Interesting.  I like that.  Also, perhaps each minion could have up to 1 positive and 1 negative ability on each power.  That way you could have grenade throwing soldiers, minute men with a more powerful short ranged attack, etc.

And a Melee power can be used with a Throw special ability for limited ranged combat. Its a point balance issue.

My point is that there is really no reason to take a melee power over a short-ranged range power with point blank.  Melee + thrown increases the total cost by 10.  Ranged + Short + PB increases the cost by five then HALVES it.  This is huge.

The maximum you can reduce an individual power listing's cost is by half, regardless of how many drawbacks you purchase. That might be too crappy of a rule.

...

But they usually have a fairly severe drawback. Need to balance those points better.

The second comment is fixed by the first.  I do agree, however, that the first is a fairly crappy solution.  But I am not really sure that it is even a problem.  Just something to keep your eye on during play testing.  It may turn out that the discount really does take more away then it gives back.  I noticed in my playtest that The Butcher who only had the Equipment disability on his attack power was far more effective then any other hero and many of them had multiple stacked disabilities on their major powers.

Disability--I think that's what you are talking about--does not allow you to stack the identified attribute with any powers.

I have two responses to this.

1st:  I interpreted that to mean that you could purchase abilities that were associated with the stat and you simply couldn't roll add the stat to the power's dice.

2nd:  Which is why it will be perfect to give all of your abilities the Drain: (attribute made unusable by disability.)  All costs are halved with no ramification.


A couple of other minor things.  I would l personally like to see the Champion price capped at 750 instead of 600.  As of now, all Champions must have between 300 and 400 points worth of abilities.  This is only 2/3rds the range of a Hero.  And each point is worth more proportionally for a hero then a Champion.  Personally, I would like to see a bit more versatile for Champions.

Consider posting a plain text version of your rules.  14 MB is a huge download.  Its worth time, and the rule book looks great, but I know people who can't download it because it is to big.  Give the poor modem users a chance.  Post a plain text version.

Make sure that Hardened + Immortality isn't broken.  I'm not sure it is, but I promise that it is a brutally effective combo and needs to be well play tested.

I like the special abilities Expert and Master.  Well priced and very interesting.  Both are flavorful and effective but neither creates a pure dominant strategy.  Well done.

[mratomek]

Bill,

Here's a new character stat format with a few changes: 1): All PL are even numbers making it easier to figure out the dice, 2). All abbreviations are spelled out, 3). All power modifiers have been condensed to a single "Improved" special abilitiy, 4). The point costs have been changed a bit:

Hero: Maximum 200 points (not 300 pts)
PL: 2 points each (Unless indicated otherwise)
Improved: 5 pts per +1 (Hero can have a maximum of +2)
Malfunction: 5 pts (all special ability costs are being reduced by about half)
Heroic Deed: 10 pts
Genius: 25 potins
Disability: 5 pts

Professor Phantom
Hero (199)

St   612 Disintegration +Intelligence (Ranged) (Skill): Equipment, +1 Improved, Malfunction
Ag   6   12 Phase +Intelligence (Self) (Skill): Equipment, +2 Improved
Pc   6   10 Logic +Intelligence (Self) (Skill): +1 Improved
Rs   8   10 Sensors+Intelligence (Extended) (Skill): Equipment
In   10   6 Brawl +Agility (Melee) (Skill):
Pr   8   Gadgets (10)
         10 Levitation +Intelligence (Ranged) (Skill): Equipment
Ac   3      10 Flight +Intelligence (Self) (Skill): Equipment
Sz   1   Heroic Deed
Lf   6   Genius +1
Mv   4   Disability (Strength)
Int   -   
Sp   Gd   


By decreasing the gap bewteen PL and special abilities--and decreasing the overall points allowed--you still have a limited number of points with which to make a few hard decisions and must commit to a strategy.

[mratomek]

That was an accidental post:

Professor Phantom
Hero (199)

St   6     12 Disintegration +Intelligence (Ranged) (Skill): Equipment, +1 Improved, Malfunction
Ag   6     12 Phase +Intelligence (Self) (Skill): Equipment, +2 Improved
Pc   6     10 Logic +Intelligence (Self) (Skill): +1 Improved
Rs   8     10 Sensors+Intelligence (Extended) (Skill): Equipment
In   10     6 Brawl +Agility (Melee) (Skill):
Pr   8     Gadgets (10)
                     10 Levitation +Intelligence (Ranged) (Skill): Equipment
Ac   3           10 Flight +Intelligence (Self) (Skill): Equipment
Sz  1     Heroic Deed
Lf   6     Genius +1
Mv   4     Disability (Strength)
Int   -   
Sp   Gd   


By decreasing the gap bewteen PL and special abilities--and decreasing the overall points allowed--you still have a limited number of points with which to make a few hard decisions and must commit to a strategy.

[Bill Masek]

Matt,

I believe that this is a step in the right direction simplicity wise.  I would like the dice to be on the character sheet itself.  Figuring out that 14+16 is 2d10+1d4+1d6 will still be a bit jarring during play.

I do not believe that reducing the total number of points characters have to work with will solve your problem.

Generic Man

Champion
Cost: 144

Strength:  12
Agility:  0
Intelligence:  0
Perception:  0
Resolve:  12
Presence:  0

Action:  3
Size:  1
Life:  12
Move:  12
Spirit:  Good

12 Brawl + Strength (Melee) (Mutation)

12 Leap + Strength (Self) (Mutation)

12 Absorb Damage + Resolve (Self) (Mutation)

12 Absorb Effect + Resolve (Self) (Mutation)

Generic Man costs only 144 points (so he needs more to actually be a hero), has very high movement, very good defensive capabilities against all kinds of attacks and is good at attacking.  Note that his abilities are diversified amongst two stats, so a single cripple will not take him out.

If you wanted to turn Generic Man into Blasting Man you could add 12 points to Agility and turn brawl into a pimped out range attack.  If you wanted Controlling Man you could shift your defense to strength (with a new power) and buy a maxed out control power linked to resolve.

With this new system I see no reason why you would ever purchase either intelligence or presence.  The only value I see for perception is negating ambushers.  This effectively forces all characters to be idiotic and maladjusted.

You have not changed the pure dominance strategy.  If anything, you have made the alternate strategies worse.  While this new method will reduce options, it will not make the best choices any worse, just make the poor choices terrible.

However, I like the idea of dropping the cost of the +1 to 1/5 of their original cost.  It will make them a lot more viable.

Best,
        Bill

[mratomek]

Generic Man and Blasting Man are great at fighting. But what if, in order to succeed, Generic Man had to hack into a computer, search for clues at a murder scene, convince the President of the United States to not launch an all out nuclear attack before he had a chance to remedy the situation.

I am hoping for Monster to offer more than just a combat experience--that is where some of the other attributes and abilities come into play.

For example, if Generic Man was fighting an opponent with an Invisibility power, he would never be able to hit him, because his opponent could continually use 2 Actions to attack and 1 Action to "hide"/turn invisibile. Generic man has no way of finding him.

Furthermore, the idea for more involved scenarios is to have sort of mini-games that either preceed or follow a major conflict, to help set the stage/tell a story, with the mini games having some in-game effect. So if your character can hack into the computer system, he is able to turn off the security system which disables 300 points worth of automated security lasers, or if your character is able to find the clues, he gains an Ambush advantage versus his opponent in the big game.

Ultimately, I think it makes a game more interesting, because you have to have characters capable of performing skills other than combat. You have to strategize for more possiblities, other than thumping your opponent's characters.

In one game I play tested, my heroes were tasked with hacking into 4 telecommunication computers in 4 different bunkers to move 4 different satellites into different orbits. I had to make an unopposed roll versus a TN 10 and score 2 successes to complete each hack.

Once the game started, I realized that only 2 of my 5 characters had the ability to succeed. One had a Intelligence D10 and the other had a Intelligence D8 + Science D8. So I had to quickly shift my strategy around to protect the more capable character who would be able to complete the assignment.

Once my opponent picked up on that fact, he started targeting my character rather than attacking the team at large.

It made what would have been a general brawl far more strategic and fun. Ultimately, I had a better mix of characters that would have beat him in a straight team conflict, but once he targeted my two characters and took them out--it was game over. I couldn't complete the tasks.

Also, I am thinking of making the Life/Fatality roll independent so that a player does not feel he has to always load up on Strength and Resolve, maybe at 10 pts per PL with the same PL limits in place. And then keep the point scores for Minion, Heroes and Champions where they are--with the reduction of cost to special abilities. Things start to balance out.

A Fatality Roll for a character is any two attributes of your choice at any time. Given a dire situation, maybe it was your Intelligence (quick thinking) and Agility (a sudden movement) that ultimate saved your life? With the ability to prevent a attribute from stacking--even with another attribute--that could create some interesting situations.

Also, by using only even numbers, a power lising could look like (for a character with Strength 12):

Brawl D12 + D12 St (Melee) (Skill): etc.

And place the attribute score right in the listing.

I am working on an text-only update to the rules that I will try and post over the weekend.

I really appreciate your input.  I think initially I wanted to push the boundaries as far as I could, realizing that I would have to scale back eventually to increase the playability. And that's where I am now.

So keep your suggestions coming and let me know how I can support your playtesting efforts.

MrAtomek

[Bill Masek]

Matt,

Before I comment on your reply, I would like to clarify the rules in regards to scenario creation.

Here is how it works (in my understanding).

Player 1 creates a scenario, who starts with what, the mini-games, the goals, the payoffs, etc.

Player 2 selects which roll they want to play.

Players 3+ do the same if there are more then 2 people

Player 1 is left with the last (and, if there is an imbalance, worst) position.

All players build teams with full knowledge of what challenges of what they and all other players are going to face.

I will be assuming that players must use this structure to create scenarios.  If the mini--games are a surprise, then they are not worth preparing for and it breaks down into a combat game where mini-games simply give the other player the advantage.

Generic Man and Blasting Man are great at fighting. But what if, in order to succeed, Generic Man had to hack into a computer, search for clues at a murder scene, convince the President of the United States to not launch an all out nuclear attack before he had a chance to remedy the situation.

I am hoping for Monster to offer more than just a combat experience--that is where some of the other attributes and abilities come into play.

It depends on the costs and payoffs.  The bulk of the game is combat oriented.  If the game was a one shot in which the victory condition could not be completed by slugging it out with the other team, you could take Generic Man and give him the victory condition stat/power, which could be high Int and Comprehend, high Presence and Business or whatever was needed.

In a long series of games it becomes a question of how many mini-games or even full sessions they are you willing to throw to win the rest.

Example 1:

Let us say that there are two mini games, each worth 100 points to the winner in a 6 game set.  Each player has one of them.  For that session, they get the 100 point bonus if they succeed and their opponent will get 100 points if they don't.  It will cost 30 points to win the mini-game.

Player 1 spends it, Player 2 does not.  In two games player 1 will have a 40 point advantage.  In four games player 2 will have a 60 point advantage.  Thus player 2 will most likely win.

Example 2:
Let us say that there are four mini games, each worth 100 points to the winner in a 6 game set.  Each player has two of them.  For that session, they get the 100 point bonus if they succeed and their opponent will get 100 points if they don't.  It will cost 30 points to win the mini-game.

Player 1 spends it, Player 2 does not.  In four games player 1 will have a 40 point advantage.  In two games player 2 will have a 60 point advantage.  Thus player 1 will most likely win.

So this does create some interesting decisions.  However, the decisions are no less interesting if there were no stats and characters simply purchased powers that filled the scenario requirements.  Nor does this stop the characters from all being Generic Men slightly retuned with 56 extra points tossed around.  It will simply change where some of those 56 points are spent.

For example, if Generic Man was fighting an opponent with an Invisibility power, he would never be able to hit him, because his opponent could continually use 2 Actions to attack and 1 Action to "hide"/turn invisibile. Generic man has no way of finding him.

Fine, there are 3 combat situations where perception is useful, not 2.  But all of them are very limited in scale and ignoring them is generally not lethal.

In the situation you posed, Generic Man would move away, forcing Invisible Boy to either move and turn invisible or move and attack.  Mean while, Generic Man would be attacking the Invisible Boy's not-invisible team mates.  Even if Generic Man's team had no characters with a decent perception, they should probably have at least 1 with an Area of Effect power which could be used to take out Invisible Boy.

Also, I am thinking of making the Life/Fatality roll independent so that a player does not feel he has to always load up on Strength and Resolve, maybe at 10 pts per PL with the same PL limits in place. And then keep the point scores for Minion, Heroes and Champions where they are--with the reduction of cost to special abilities. Things start to balance out.

A Fatality Roll for a character is any two attributes of your choice at any time. Given a dire situation, maybe it was your Intelligence (quick thinking) and Agility (a sudden movement) that ultimate saved your life? With the ability to prevent a attribute from stacking--even with another attribute--that could create some interesting situations.

So 10 pts per life?  That's a bit hefty, but then again, it would force people to make a hard decision as to how much life they want.  The Eternal + Hardened powers will become a LOT better.

While I like the idea of linking Fatality rolls to any stats, it will simply shift the purely dominate abilities from Strength and Resolve to Agility and Perception.  Ultimate defense, attack, initiative and resistance to the surprise powers.  You might want to give a high strength under this system the same way you might want to give a character a high agility in the last.  It is a little useful, but only after you have maxed out the two good ones.

As you can see, simply removing the stats would solve a lot of problems the game currently has.

Also, by using only even numbers, a power lising could look like (for a character with Strength 12):

Brawl D12 + D12 St (Melee) (Skill): etc.

And place the attribute score right in the listing.

That looks better.  So would...

Brawl D10+D6 + D10+D4 St (Melee) (Skill)

...be how you would write scores higher then 12?

You have the potential for a great game here.  Keep up the good work.

Best,
        Bill

[Bill Masek]

Matt,

On the train, I had an idea that would allow you to keep attributes, but fix all the problems you currently have with them.

Each power will need to have 1-2 associated attributes.

Attributes are not written on the character sheet.  However, you will keep special abilities like Genius which give a finite bonus to all powers which are linked to that attribute.  If you took the Disabled special ability, you would not be allowed to purchase any power with the associated ability.

All character types could purchase these special abilities and each would have a cap.

My initial thoughts for this cap are:

Minions:  1
Heroes:  2
Champions:  3

Otherwise it would work just like the stat-less version I posted earlier.

Best,
        Bill