[Monster Rules] An Outside Playtest

[Bill Masek]

Matt,

I like it.  It is a lot simpler, but allows for an equal amount of character diversity.  I do have a couple of minor comments.

If damage is (att-def)/2 instead of (att-def)/5 then Eternal and Hardened are powered down, so I wouldn't up their costs just yet.  I never saw Undead as broken, because there was no reason not to make most of your powers one of the three that they are vulnerable to.  Honestly, I thought 25 was balanced originally when special abilities were very expensive.  If anything, I would recommend dropping it down to 15.  And I would like to see more powers like undead, but with different weaknesses.  Only allow characters to take one of the Undead like powers though.  You could be made of ice and vulnerable to fire, hellfire and white fire.  You could be made of fire and be vulnerable to acid, ice and water,  etc.

With the new defense system, 10 pts per HP is to expensive.  With 5/damage 10pts was expensive but still good.  With 2/damage, damage will be racked up REAL fast with the HP being a much more minor buffer.  A very expensive minor buffer which should only be purchased after the defensive power is maxed out.  I'd cost it down to 4 pts per point of life.  That is effectively what it was priced at originally, but now it will do less.

Best,
        Bill

[mratomek]

Next chance you get, try the game at 5 pts per wound and Life at 10 points per point and slight wounds 1, severe wounds 2, critical wound 3 and fatal at 5. See if the game crawls too much.

I suppose that a standard hero with a D12 could still score 3 wound criticals. And at 5 pts/wound champions are still reasonable on the battle field. Minions are still descent but weak.

I will try the same and compare notes.

MrAtomek

[Bill Masek]

Matt,

I will wait my next playtest until you have the new rules posted.

However, once you have the new rules up and I can convice some [people to play again I will be happy to try out the 5/1 damage/difference ratio.  Although I am not quite sure what exactly "slight wounds", "severe wounds", "critical wounds" and "fatal wounds" mean.

Best,
        Bill

[mratomek]

When a characters scors wounds, he can choose what to do with those wounds. He can simply choose to cause damage at 1 wound per point of damage or he can exchange wounds for other in-game effects:

   Wounds   Level   Types

   1   Slight         Advantage, Damage, Disrupt, Hold, Knock Back

   2   Severe       Disarm, Eliminate, Escape, Glitch, Injury,Knock Out, Lock, Knockdown, Slam, Stun

   3   Critical     Cripple, Destroy, Fatality, Malfunction, Reverse, Take Down

   4   Fatal       Deathblow


The wounds make combat far more tactical. Rather than using 2 wounds to cause 2 wounds of damage, you can opt to Glitch a n oppoent's Armored power, causing it to be reduced by half for the remainder of the Round, or Knock Out which forces an opponent to make an immediate Fatality Roll versus his damage level. If he fails, he is KO'ed.

It's in the Action Roll section of the manual. Its a big part of what makes the game fun.

MrAtomek

[Bill Masek]

Ah, the alternate damage table.  Gotchya.

By the way, here's a little something I drew up.  Tell me if it fits your sensabilities.

Amazing Kid

Hero
Cost: 150

Base:  d12
Action:  3
Life:  4 (40)
Size:  1
Move:  10 (10)
Spirit:  Good

Base Dice Increase x4
(100)

Best,
        Bill

[Bill Masek]

And just for fun, heres the current version of our favorite cosmic entity.

She Who is Heaven and Bliss

Champion
Cost:  600 Points

Base:  d4
Action:  4
Life:  8
Size:  2
Move:  2 (24 w/ DT)
Spirit:  Good

Eternal
(50)

24 (2d10+d4+4) Allure Tg + Pr (Dm):   Short Range, Enslave, Mass x 16, Point Blank, Cosmic, Enhanced+4
((32 + 25 + 48 + 5 + 80 + 20)/2 = 105)

16 (d10+d6+4) Cosmic Energy Tg + Pr (Dm):  Short Range, Enhanced +4, Blast
((32+20+4)/2=28)

24 (2d10+1d4+4) Dimensional Travel Sf + Pr (Dm), Blink, Enhanced +4, Cosmic
(32+15+15+60=132)

Blind Fighting
(10)

Disabled:  Agility
(-5)

(400)


I like move costing 1pt/pl.  It makes a nice sink for extra points.

Best,
        Bill

[Bill Masek]

typo.  She shoulden't have blast

[mratomek]

Ah, the alternate damage table.  Gotchya.

By the way, here's a little something I drew up.  Tell me if it fits your sensabilities.

Amazing Kid

Hero
Cost: 150

Base:  d12
Action:  3
Life:  4 (40)
Size:  1
Move:  10 (10)
Spirit:  Good

Base Dice Increase x4
(100)

Best,
        Bill

It would be, but I thought ablout that yesterday and there has to be a cap on default dice, otherwise you could drop 200 points and have a default of D20.

Since defaults are only supposed to cover that which you do not have a specific power for and by not buying a power you are essentially saying the character is not good or superior at doing it, I am thinking

Minion D4
Hero D4 or D6
Champion D4, D6 or D8

MrAtomek

[Bill Masek]

Matt,

but I thought about that yesterday and there has to be a cap on default dice

I was under the assumption that there would be a cap.  However, I don't see any reason why that cap has to be bellow the normal cap for a power.

Characters like Amazing Kid are great at compleating non-combat objectives.  They are also so-so in combat, but a combat monster of the same point value will own them.  After all, 25pts/base-increase prevent them from buying too many real powers or health.

I think that you should either just give the different ranks different base rolls (d4 for minions, d6 for heroes and d8 for champions) or allow them to increase their base roll to their natural maximum (d8 minion, d12 hero, d10+d6 champion).

Best,
       Bill

[mratomek]

And just for fun, heres the current version of our favorite cosmic entity.

She Who is Heaven and Bliss

Champion
Cost:  600 Points

Base:  d4
Action:  4
Life:  8
Size:  2
Move:  2 (24 w/ DT)
Spirit:  Good

Eternal
(50)

24 (2d10+d4+4) Allure Tg + Pr (Dm):   Short Range, Enslave, Mass x 16, Point Blank, Cosmic, Enhanced+4
((32 + 25 + 48 + 5 + 80 + 20)/2 = 105)

16 (d10+d6+4) Cosmic Energy Tg + Pr (Dm):  Short Range, Enhanced +4, Blast
((32+20+4)/2=28)

24 (2d10+1d4+4) Dimensional Travel Sf + Pr (Dm), Blink, Enhanced +4, Cosmic
(32+15+15+60=132)

Blind Fighting
(10)

Disabled:  Agility
(-5)

(400)


I like move costing 1pt/pl.  It makes a nice sink for extra points.

Best,
        Bill

To me SHE is now looking a bit more balanced. She has dumped all her points into a truly cosmic level effect and travel with a very powerful, but not cosmic level powerful, CosmicEnergy.

And she still has potential exploits. Surprise attacks will cut her Blink ability in half. Immunity (Allure) would completely disable her power, Darkened would also and affect her Cosmic Energy attack as well.

Hmmm... just thought of something. Although SHE could use DT to defend against all attacks. If someone actually made a successfully effect attack--such as Domination--should she be able to use DT to make challenge rolls. Have to think about that.

There is a miscalculation on:

24 (2d10+1d4+4) Dimensional Travel Sf + Pr (Dm), Blink, Enhanced +4, Cosmic
(32+15+15+60=132)

Should be
(32+15+20+80=147)

Here is another champion level character



Brimstone
Champion (600)

Default: D6
Actions: 4
Size: 0
Life: D10
Move: 6
Spirit: Good

24 Armored (2D10 + D4) (Self) (Dimensional): Relic, Cosmic, Astral
20 Strength (2D10): Relic, Ultimate
20 Weapon (2D10) (Melee) (Dimensional): Relic, Ultimate, Reach x1, Combo, Charge, Grab
20 Fire (2D10) (Ranged) (Dimensional): Relic, Ultimate, Blast Through
16 Resist (D10 + D6) (Self) (Dimensional): Relic
12 Flight (D12) (Self) (Dimensional): Relic
10 Search (D10) (Ranged) (Dimensional)
Darkened: Relic
+4 Vitality: Relic
Achilles Heel (Cold).

His downfall is that using the alternate Wounds, a good hit can be used to weaken or destroy any one of his powers that uses Relic.

I really like the new character format too.

I will try to have all the rules updated and posted tonight for your next play test. I will also try to have a change-control summary page.

Mr Atomek

[mratomek]

Matt,

but I thought about that yesterday and there has to be a cap on default dice

I was under the assumption that there would be a cap.  However, I don't see any reason why that cap has to be bellow the normal cap for a power.

Characters like Amazing Kid are great at compleating non-combat objectives.  They are also so-so in combat, but a combat monster of the same point value will own them.  After all, 25pts/base-increase prevent them from buying too many real powers or health.

I think that you should either just give the different ranks different base rolls (d4 for minions, d6 for heroes and d8 for champions) or allow them to increase their base roll to their natural maximum (d8 minion, d12 hero, d10+d6 champion).

Best,
       Bill

I supppose since a character with default dice cannot use a lot of special abilities there is a down side to it. Maybe it scales cost wise:



D4   0 points
D6   25 points
D8   50 points   Minion Cap
D10  100 points
D12  200 points  Hero Cap
D14  300 points
D16  400 points  Champion Cap

Essentially a D16 Champion could do everything really well, but a specialzied character would have a substantially ability to use an 24 Allure versus him or her. And, he basicaly has no points leftover.

I am will to try it. I am setting up a game tonight and am eager to try a lot of these rule mods.

Mr Atomek

[mratomek]

The new format plus default dice works a lot better with Minions:

SWAT
Minion (58)

Default: D8
Actions: 2
Size: 0
Life: D6
Move: 6
Spirit: Good

I think I am going to make the Fatality Roll TN for all Minions a TN 4 for a 1 point of damage hit. If you spend more points on his Life score, he can have a better chance of remaining alive.

2-Wound hit is still automatic elimination.



SWAT Sniper
Minion (74)

Default: D8
Actions: 2
Size: 0
Life: D8
Move: 6
Spirit: Good

12 Sniper Rifle (Weapon) (D12) (Ranged) (Skill): Equipment

And here is a little tougher unit.

[mratomek]

Bill,

The updated file is at:

http://www.monsterrules.com/resources/Monster_Rules_Revision_2.pdf

[mratomek]

Evil Captain America


Skull Face
Hero (300)

Default: D8
Actions: 3
Size: 0
Life: D8
Move: 6
Spirit: Good

16 Shield (Weapon) (D12) (Melee) (Skill): Equipment, +1 Enhanced, Expert, Combo, Knockdown, Block, Counter, Grab, Throw, Ultimate
10 Sneak (D10) (Self) (Skill)
10 Strength (D10) (Self) (Skill)
10 Discipline (D10) (Self) (Skill)
8 Leader (D10) (Self) (Skill): Strategy, Tactics

Heroic Deed
Heroic Recovery
+1 Prodigy
+1 Vitality

[mratomek]

Bill,

Finally had a chance to playtest the new rule changes and I was quite pleased. It was a 600 vs. 600 game with the heroes attempting to rescue a captured FBI agent. The heroes were Camouflage (more of a PL 12 character with lots of abilities) and Iron Goliath (an Ultimate hero with a few PL 16 powers that were all equipment to keep costs down).

The villians were Skull Face (the evil version of Cap), a side kick named Bone Breaker and another five D8 Skull Terrorists (Minions)

In the first two games, the heroes ruled the roost, taking out all the Minions first and then polishing of Skull Face. Hardened (Eternal and Undead) are very, very powerful, but I was okay with it.

A few good rule tweaks even the battle field a bit. 1). Glitch and Malfunction not only cause the targeted Equipment power to be reduced by half when used, but also negate all of the powers special abilities.  2). A character with Leader benefits from any of his Minions gain surprise on an opponent from position (being in his rear area). So if one of his men is in a surprise position, Skullface got it as well.

In the Third Game Skullface clued in on another strategy. If Iron Goliath rolled low, he would use his acrobatics rather then his Shield: Block to defend, gaining the ability to manuever into his rear area as well. Furthermore, he started with his men spread about the map instead clumped into a single target that was easy for Camouflage to blast away with his Fire power.

One fight went to the heroes and one went to the villains.

The Fatality and Knockout wounds are fairly powerful now. Goliath had a Life D12 with +2 Vitality, so it always took a long time to beat him down. But in the last game, Skull Face was able to use Manuever to out-position him and score a Glitch. At the time, Goliath had only taken 7 points of damage and Skullface was at a 6.

In the hit, Skullface did another 2 wounds of damage and then scored another 3-wound damage. Since, there was a good chance he would loose with Goliaths next attacks, he selected the Fatality, forcing the Goliath to make a Fatality Roll versus a TN 9. And he failed! Down he went.

I was happy with the use of Default Dice and Minions as well.

The game was a lot faster playing--with some particularly brutal dice rolls 1 vs. 18--Ouch!

Mr Atomek