[Noir] Early draft of Noir rules

[Caesar_X]

You can read the early draft of my Noir rules and game notes here:

http://groups.google.com/group/Noir_RPG

Noir is a story game that concentrates on the noir genre in film and literature.  It doesn't limit itself to the hardboiled detective, but takes an extended view of the subject matter.

The rules are in a very raw form as I just wanted to get them out of my head and on the net.  Obviously I have been incorporating great ideas from other games and early comments from the Forge and other sources.  But feedback (especially in the following areas) would be very helpful for my next draft:

1. Intimacy Points
2. Character Abilities
3. Developing Characters
4. Violence Level
5. Tests
6. Wounds

Thanks for your time!
Chris

[Jared A. Sorensen]

You can read the early draft of my Noir rules and game notes here:

http://groups.google.com/group/Noir_RPG

Noir is a story game that concentrates on the noir genre in film and literature.  It doesn't limit itself to the hardboiled detective, but takes an extended view of the subject matter.

So, like the noir RPG from Archon Gaming, Inc.?
http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_21.html

[Caesar_X]

Similar from a genre perspective of course.  Doing a noir game isn't anything new.  And the Film Noir game you referenced (thank you, BTW) also uses archetypes as the basis for character generation.

But I am approaching this game from a more narrativist angle than I've seen done before.  I like a lot of the elements of authorship and trust I've seen in games like MW, PTA and DitV.  I wish to explore that further with Flashbacks, Intimacy Points and player struggles to define the character narrative.

If you have any feedback along those lines, I'd be happy to hear it.

Thanks,
Chris

[Jared A. Sorensen]

So...dot dot dot...like the noir RPG from Archon Gaming, Inc.?

I mean sure, film noir RPG. I get it.

But you have the same name.

Am I wrong...? Or are my browser settings screwy?

[Caesar_X]

Jared,

I'm a little new on the Forge (hence the fact that I have 1425 less posts than you) so perhaps I'm missing your point.  I haven't had a chance to read or play the Noir RPG from Archon Gaming, Inc.  The 'Noir' name I'm using is simply a working title.

I'm afraid I don't understand if you are trying to tell me:
A) To pick a different title for my game.
B) That another game exactly like the one I am planning already exists and I should give up now.
C) Insert some other newbie mistake of your choosing here.

Thanks,
Chris

[Caesar_X]

Jared,

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt because of your Forge history, but after scanning through your last 100 or so posts I can see that was a mistake.

I'll continue working on my game and you can continue making useless posts.  I've already found other people around here willing to be helpful rather than acting snide.

Chris

[Justin D. Jacobson]

You jumped the gun with your last post, I think, Chris. Indeed, I believe that Jared was pointing out the name issue, which you resolved in your second-to-last post by noting that yours was merely a working title. Your last post was gratuitous, and you'd do well to consider whatever advice Jared may be offering, since he's got significant experience to draw upon. If you don't understand what he's getting at, ask him to clarify (as you initially did).

OT, your notes look interesting, but your question is too open-ended. I wouldn't begin to know how to provide "feedback". What specifically are you concerned with/having problems with? Have you playtested?

[Caesar_X]

Hi Justin,

You aren't the only person who pointed out the tone of my last post.  So if I offended or took Jared's comments the wrong way, then I apologize.  I certainly wondered why he would be baiting a newbie like me in the first place.

But OT, I spent a weekend internalizing on my thoughts, a lot of recent research in the indie space, and the comments of some very helpful Forge members.  In retrospect the rules "draft" that emerged was not yet ready for prime time.  It is more of a morass than a ruleset!

Specifically, I was wrestling with the Intimacy system since it had particularly attracted me.  But I am realizing that the genre and this system is not really about (real or unrealized) love, but about trust.  I think MW's Trust mechanic is a particularly good one and am wondering if something similar is a better fit for this system.  I really like the idea of moving Trust Points between player pools to affect the character dynamic and alter the flow of the game.

I am also experimenting with letting the group create a relationship map (ala Sorceror's Soul) that includes the characters and important NPCs and plots their family and sexual relationships with connecting lines between characters.  The GM would help update the map during play and use this to generate bangs for the characters.  Again, nothing really new here.

A recent discussion with a friend ended up centering on the concept of Guilt Points that are accumulated by characters in the game.  Once a certain threshold is reached (i.e. 10 Guilt Points), the character is "found out".  This certainly meshes with a quote I read in a critical essay about Noir that "Shared guilt is often the only bond between noir characters."

I got engaged last weekend, so suddenly time is at a premium, but I have started stripping down the rules into the most basic parts so I can get a framework to start playtesting.  I feel like I was trying to throw too much in at the beginning.  I hope I can provide a more focused draft soon.

Thanks for your thoughts,
Chris

You jumped the gun with your last post, I think, Chris. Indeed, I believe that Jared was pointing out the name issue, which you resolved in your second-to-last post by noting that yours was merely a working title. Your last post was gratuitous, and you'd do well to consider whatever advice Jared may be offering, since he's got significant experience to draw upon. If you don't understand what he's getting at, ask him to clarify (as you initially did).

OT, your notes look interesting, but your question is too open-ended. I wouldn't begin to know how to provide "feedback". What specifically are you concerned with/having problems with? Have you playtested?

[Andy Kitkowski]

Archon is dead.

The owners were con artists and idiots.

The Noir RPG they 'produced' had gems, but crashed and is now forgotton in all respects save for campfire tales of RPG industry horror.

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=267725  <--- Look for Jack's posts to see the whole story behind the company and the game.

Noir is a generic title. Take it. Make it yours.  Maybe call it NOIR (all caps) to prevent confusion.

But, in the end, there's really no confusion: Once you product the Noir RPG, it will be the only Noir RPG in print.  The old one disappeared from bargain bins into dumpsters within a year of its release.

-Andy

[Justin D. Jacobson]

Archon is dead.

The owners were con artists and idiots.

The Noir RPG they 'produced' had gems, but crashed and is now forgotton in all respects save for campfire tales of RPG industry horror.

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=267725  <--- Look for Jack's posts to see the whole story behind the company and the game.

Noir is a generic title. Take it. Make it yours.  Maybe call it NOIR (all caps) to prevent confusion.

But, in the end, there's really no confusion: Once you product the Noir RPG, it will be the only Noir RPG in print.  The old one disappeared from bargain bins into dumpsters within a year of its release.

-Andy

While certainly true, I'd still eschew "Noir". First, there's a Mutants & Masterminds supplement with the same name too. It's not a legal issue; it's a confusion issue. Second, and most important, it's boring. I can think of a million titles that would grab my attention before "Noir". I just started reading "The Chinatown Death Cloud Peril". One guess as to what drew my attention to that book.

[Caesar_X]

Thanks for all of the good advice.  Honestly though, 'Noir' is simply a working title and will definitely not be the final name of the game.  I just thought it was nice and short to use in a subject line on The Forge and people would get the gist of what I was working on.

When the game gets to a better state I'm sure the right title will rise to the top.  But you guys rock for caring about it in the first place!

Thanks,
Chris
Caesar_X@yahoo.com

Read about Noir the RPG here: http://troupeberkeley.infogami.com/Noir

[Kory Johnson]

I'm a bit new here, but I'd still like to make a suggestion all the same:  Why not use the term "Black" instead of the French?  One look at your setting and most astute readers would make the connection immediately and you wouldn't have to worry about being confused with that "other" game.

[Caesar_X]

Hi Kory,

Thanks for the good suggestion.  To avoid any future confusion I have changed the working title to "Touch of Noir" as an homage of one of my favorite movies.

Chris
Caesar_X@yahoo.com

Read about 'Touch of Noir' here: http://troupeberkeley.infogami.com/Noir

[apeiron]

i'm excited about this.  i have my own noir/pulp things in the works, i look forward to sharing thoughts.