Things for the Flower of Battle

[tauman]

I agree with both Eamon Voss and Ben Lehman. Eamon Voss hit the nail on the head about the problems of including Orientalism in TROS and all of the problems that would come up. But I also agree that to include in your home games, it would be very easy--provided everyone has a realistic understanding of the differences and similarities between the Oriental and Occidental fighting styles and weapons. However, IMHO, to do a "true Oriental" FRPG involves more than just incorporating weapons and fighting styles--which would require basically a whole other sourcebook to TROS.

Steve Reich

[kanseg]

Hi there

My first post at this great site, but it was about an issue I feel quite strongly about so I felt obliged to toss in my two cents.

I think the problem is the general perception of gamers (and the public for that matter) in considering that there is something unique or special about the Oriental Martial Arts.  Possibly that is a consequence of the philosophies and traditions such arts espouse as well as the cineamatic treatment they receive.

My own background is unarmed and weapon based Oriental systems - primarily Japanese Sword and Jo-work from Aikido and for the last several years a focus on the Filipino Martial Arts.  However in the last year or so I have also been looking at the historical manuals for various Western Martial Arts, which are available on the net. This was because I became aware that much of the Filipino systems owed its development on the Spanish colonial influence.

My conclusion quickly became that there is no superior art in terms of East and West.  Each school has its own methods for training the student up to a level of competency but the end result was that the student was being trained to survive on the streets and battlefields of whichever locale they resided in.  So for example in Okinawa a farmer could not carry a sword so learned to develop the use of agricultural and fishing tools as weapons, whereas at a particular time in Italy a gentleman might be carrying a rapier and dagger or wearing a cloak leading to the development of fighting methods using those items.  Thus my feeling is that fighting systems evolved from the environment and culture in which they developed in.  There is no superior art - perhaps there are simply superior students (which I can not claim to be).

The other idea I came to during the course of my comparison of Western and Eastern Martial Arts was that there was no difference in the concepts and principles being used.  There would still be blocking, parrying, feinting etc.  The human body is only capable of certain motions so attacks would still be going in on the same angles and lines.  The only difference in the arts is the design of the weapon being used.  Obviously some cultures  developed some very exotic weaponery but in basics a weapon can still be grouped into the categories used in the TROS system.  

I guess my thought on TFOB supplement is that it would be nice to have a descriptions of the different sort of weapons devloped in different cultures and the different armors they used.  Perhaps also a discussion of differences in strategies and fighting mentality, but in terms of game mechanics there would not really be any need to make major change.  After all a weapon would only still inflict piercing, cutting or bludgeoning damage and is there really that much difference between the effects of a longsword or a Katana on the Human Body?  

I've just realised how much I've written so I apologise.  My only other point is that I for one would be interested in seeing a section on various types of firearm if only to help when I use TROS in other settings.

Regards

kanseg

PS Love the Game, Mr Norwood.

[tauman]

You've hit the nail squarely on the head with the proverbial hammer, methinks.

tauman

[Ryuuko]

I wish I would have gotten into this conversation earlier but I'm going to try and catch up now.

On the inclusion of eastern martial arts, I would have to agree with Jake in his original rant. I love the old style samurai stories and movies like Seven Samurai and such and I am also currently reading Musashi; however, I also have a new seeded love for western martial arts thanks to TROS and ARMA. Now I'd like to see some eastern martial arts but for the most part as background and filler to flesh out the world of Weryth and not to make another HKAT or L5R game. (I got nothing against these by the way) I have faith in Jake and his team to really make TFOB great and keep it in the same realism that he has been. It is this selling point that makes a number of people take a second look at the game. If you take this same zeal toward eastern martial arts although to a lesser extent (There is just so much there) people might actually realize that in essence all the fighting styles in the world all have similarities...there are only so many ways that you can punch someone effectively, there are only so many ways the joints bend, there are only so many you can make a slash just like Kanseg said. It is for this reason that I agree with Chris.

The only major difference in styles comes about to what's effective against who you are fighting, in the environment you're in, with the weapons available to you.

For this reason I think a few added eastern styles should be included for reference and for making the world of weryth more realistic and more like a living world.

Now for things that I'd like to see in TFOB.
1. I'd also like to see the inclusion of siege combat and mass battle rules.
2. Possibly some rules and or inclusion of various artillery and such for larger combats and or sea combat.
3. I'm sure I not alone in asking for stats for more weapons in general in all areas (The more the better)
4. I'm not sure if you are covering this in OBAB but what about aerial combat?

Sorry this was kinda long,
Kevin

[svenlein]

Related to stats for more weapons, I would expect many weapons would just say "Use the stats of _____"
I would like to see a list like this.
Also stats (or equivelent weapons) for incidental weapons:
rocks (big ones, small ones)
hooks
cleavers
rakes
pitch forks (not military ones, civilian ones)
chairs
bottles (unbroken and broken)
capes
flaming torches
clubs with sharks teeth imbedded in them
stone discus
ice picks
scythe