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Started by Joel P. Shempert, October 26, 2007, 09:42:50 PM
Quote from: Callan S. on October 30, 2007, 07:24:06 PMBut really when someone shifts the mechanics, without any note of a care or concern, it shows they don't give a crap about your step on up. They're screwing with your step on up, but it doesn't register to them that that matters in any way.
Quote from: contracycle on October 29, 2007, 05:55:07 AMThe plethora of special powers and funky tactics acts against real tactical play. Real tactics are called into being when people do NOT have a special attack that suits the situation, and instead have to manipulate the situation itself to their advantage.
Quote from: contracycle on October 29, 2007, 05:55:07 AMTry playing a simpler game, a game in which the playing field is more level, in which the opponents are more comprehensible. Under those circumstances actual tactical play will be both more important and more rewarding.
Quote from: Valamir on October 29, 2007, 10:35:09 AMYou know what games do the D&D-esque carefully orchestrated special-power-combo stuff really well? MMORPGs.That's pretty much ALL they are. Makes accessibility pretty low...I can't hang with them at all...but for the devoted those games are all about skillful manipulation of all the resources at hand and exactly how and when to apply DOTs, HOTs, and all manner of other such stuff. And the rules only "shift" when there's an update and otherwise are quite consistently applied.
Quote from: Caldis on October 29, 2007, 01:45:36 PMI think your big problem is expecting gamist play when it looks like the group is after Sim.[SNIP]I'd suggest that the GM isnt all that interested or possibly capable of turning it into the real tactical challenge you seem to be looking for. You also hint that you've been frustrated in your attempts to turn the game towards "story, story, story". I think you may have to accept that you are the only member of the group in this game that is looking for these things. You seem to have a stable group that is enjoying the game as it is. Is this the case or do you see more signs of unhappiness?
Quote from: Caldis on October 29, 2007, 01:45:36 PMSo how to keep a sim game fun for you? I find it's all about long term goals. Developing your character, where they are heading what they hope to obtain. These are all things that keep sim games going for me with D&D or Gurps or several others.
Quote from: Melinglor on October 31, 2007, 01:49:58 AMAny reccommendations? I've played Beast Hunters and loved it. What other streamlined, gamist-facilitating games are out there?
Quote from: Melinglor on October 31, 2007, 01:52:52 AMAt that early point, I decided, OK, the GM's told me that my personal goals are outsiode the scope of the campaign. So I figured I'd just focus on the combat challenges, only to find that was a bust too. And here I sit.
QuoteThing is, at least one other player is successfully pursuing goals. His Mageslayer PC is a psycho serial killer who stalks and kills spellcasters of all kinds, and would dearly love to off all the casters in the party. He's had something cooking where he goes off on his own and plays with the GM in secret. I've talked to him about it, and whatever it is, he's excited about it and can't wait for it to come to light before the group, but doesn't want it to get out too soon. On a gather info roll, Joe fed me a rumor that I think MIGHT have related to the PC's plan; at least it was the grisly murder in of a spellcaster in town. But when I recruited a couple of PCs to investigate, we spent the whole night making Gather Infor and Search checks (good ones, too!) only tin find that there were no clues to lead back to the perpetrator. I smell a rat.
QuoteSo yeah, I don't really know where to look for enjoyment in this game.
Quote from: contracycle on October 31, 2007, 08:04:53 AMWell, I'm not sure you have to go that far. Rather, restrict your focus. IME all the articulation of special powers is kinda paralysing; you think, you tend to think in terms of having X power, or not, and not being able to act effectively if you do not. You don;t necessarily need to switch systems so much as make the use of the system, rather than character definition, important. A game with your existing rules, but with fewer options may prompt more creative problem solving etc. Specify a culture or area from which all characters must come; abandon the idea that your game-at-the-table can incorporate any character in the world. Limit the choices available and I expect you will see more attempts to achieve success by Doing Things, by manipulating the situation, rather than being the solution personified.
Quote from: Caldis on October 31, 2007, 10:22:27 AMAgain it looks like CA conflict to me. You are being stymied when you look for either gamist or narrativist gameplay. In sim what is important is things that define what the character is or has. So I'd look for things like gaining spells, building a wizards tower to do research, gaining followers. Things like that, not goals that define who your characters is but things that define what he has and what he is capable of. For some people that's rewarding, Valamir mentioned MMO's and I think this is a big reward for most of those games.
Quote from: xenopulse on October 31, 2007, 02:01:03 PMI don't think there's a CA conflict, because it seems like most players in your group are not playing with a purpose. Instead, I think you're bumping up against two related issues here: your group seems to play a lot more casually, and certainly without reflection of their own play styles.[SNIP]Secondly, it seems as though the GM, who you said is acting without regard to what it's doing to your play style, is not in that mindset of fulfilling player goals. He's in the mindset of playing "properly," in whichever way he's learned to do that. I've bumped up against this so many fucking times, it annoys me to no end. But it's not the fault of the players involved. There's just a plethora of preconceived notions about how RPGs should be played, and they are often contradictory and don't serve especially well to make the game fun for the players.
Quote from: James_Nostack on October 31, 2007, 11:11:59 AMJoel, why are you playing in this game?
QuoteSo it's not an ideal situation by any means, but I'm examining that and trying to improve things in a non-pushy way. I wrote about my frustrations here, in fact, which includes chronicling a mostly positive bull session addressing my frustration. I think my main avenue for change is wrapping up my current campaign and starting something new like TSoY which would show, not tell, what I'm looking for in gaming. And I've actually got several people excited about the prospect of ending a campaign deliberately and satisfyingly--they're like, "wow, we've never seen an RPG campaign do that before!"