Let's make a game!

[Mike Holmes]

Sounds a lot like Paladin, Em.

What I'm thinking is that we could get away from the Kewl Powerz entirely, and focus on something more 'real world' in terms of what's potentially lost. So, instead of losing Ki (light animus), the character loses enlightenment or something. Or his negative trait goes up (he gets angrier, or more depressed, or gambles or something). Or both.

Or were you thinking supernatural powers, Talysman? We can go that way, too.

The question is what form should effectiveness take? Can't imagine that they're good at violence, since they avoid it. Interpersonal abilities? Hmm. The idea of a monk's cloistered existence seems to be counterintuitive to most sorts of mission effectivenesses.

We could use that for a juxtaposition. Monks who train to be really great infiltration operatives? Like Mission Impossible or James Bond but starring monks?

Or they could be more about research, etc. Sounds boring on first consideration, but think about it. They get the call from good guys abroad fighting the ancient evil. Their job is to search their ancient library for stories about how to defeat these badguys, and other information. Hmm.  

Could add elements of paranioa. NPC monks or even player characters can actually be plants? They spread disinformation.

I don't know, just brainstorming here. Anything sticking?

I do like Em's trials thing. We gotta incorporate that somehow.

Mike

[Emily Care]

the monks would be pacifist by nature and would have a couple other goals related to enlightenment...

--Uncovering the conspiracy
--Curing spiritual maladies
--Accomplishing ongoing trials
--Channeling divine/universal truths?

game play would revolve around tests of the monks: can they resolve the conflicts they encounter without resorting to violence or otherwise sacrificing their core values? could they possibly even bring someone else closer to enlightenment?

If there are conspiracies being ferreted out, what is it about them that would hook the monks? (provide dramatic tension in choice of antagonist)
What is their relationship with civilians?

:) There is a buddhist vow that comes to mind:  One takes refuge in the three treasures, I believe: the Buddha, Dharma (Buddhist philosophy and law) and the community of believers.  The third refuge could be an aspect of play: the group of characters could be in eachother's sangha,  helping them to walk the right path.

--Emily Care

[talysman]

Sounds a lot like Paladin, Em.

What I'm thinking is that we could get away from the Kewl Powerz entirely, and focus on something more 'real world' in terms of what's potentially lost. So, instead of losing Ki (light animus), the character loses enlightenment or something. Or his negative trait goes up (he gets angrier, or more depressed, or gambles or something). Or both.

Or were you thinking supernatural powers, Talysman? We can go that way, too.

no supernatural powers, more like minor enhancements to personal ability, the stuff you hear about buddhist monks or hindu fakirs in real life. prolonged fasting, heightened concentration, maybe an exceptional dodge or even the ability to pin or imobilize opponents. they would be *able* to fight, might even be able to do so effectively by applying "boost strength" (for a tiny bit of extra damage) or "improved focus" (for better aim,) but this would be what they are trying to avoid.

I wasn't thinking of a global conspiracy, really, although it could be done. just maybe a powerful country oppressing its neighbors, provinces on the verge of rebellion, a widespread famine, maybe even a plague, and the world on the verge of a large bloody war. real-world stuff, like you said.
things are so bad that traditional churches are suggesting the end of the world is at hand. all of this has happened a couple times already in western history, so it's not a stretch. we're just assuming a monastic order with exceptional (not supernatural) abilities and a code of conduct hear enough rumors about how bad things are that their code of Compassion urges them to give up their seclusion and do something good.

maybe the negative traits in the monks' own personalities have to be overcome by spending "karmic balance" points, which are also used to fuel exceptional abilities... but injuring others or causing harm also deducts from karmic balance?

[Mike Holmes]

:) There is a buddhist vow that comes to mind:  One takes refuge in the three treasures, I believe: the Buddha, Dharma (Buddhist philosophy and law) and the community of believers.  The third refuge could be an aspect of play: the group of characters could be in eachother's sangha,  helping them to walk the right path.

Sangha? Ooh, we have to include that. Instant group concept that goes beyond the simple "selected for a mission" idea. Very cool.

I think we're developing into a nifty two level sort of game here. On one hand it's about these external goals, and the mission format, and on the other it's about the personal goals. Very Whispering Vault in a way. So the mission format handles the one level, but the personal beliefs and interrelations of the group handle the other level.

Just had a thought. What if the group were to be created mechanically as a whole. The individuals would be almost like parts of the group character, or stats. Hmm, just brainstorming again.

Anyhow, I think we're still a bit light on premise. That is, I've sort of got us slanted towards the mission thing, but we don't have a compelling foe. As this seems to be more about internal sorts of things, and we're getting away from some norms, how about not having an easily identifiable evil enemy? What if the "enemy" is much more subtle? Perhaps something like unconscious webs of power that string together and hamper people's spriitual well being? Too flakey?

Come on folks, lets get more commentary going here? Anyone can join in? What do y'all think?

Nathan, that Radio Wars thing sounded OK, but didn't have anything to do with anything else being discussed. I could see you working it into something on your own, however. If not, perhaps we can co-opt some of the dynamics for this game somehow? (Maybe that's where I got the whole paranioia idea earlier from anyhow)

We coiuld go a bit futuristic and use RPunkG's idea for a dystopian Earth to be the source of the spiritual problems. Hmmm.

Mark, good point about the Occidental vs. Oriental. Perhaps a sort of merger? The monks in question formed their society just after Marco Polo, and have remained a secret since? So the philosophy would be sort of Zen but with a Judeo/Christian morality (any way I can get Sufi in would be cool, too).

If I don't respond to a particular person that doesn't mean their ideas aren't being considered. The more you participate and work your ideas into the others here, the more likely they will be carried on in the design. I am just trying to organize a bit. This is a collaborative effort, and not just my game.

Join in!

Mike

[M. J. Young]

At this point, I wasn't really thinking in terms of a game, just in terms of "Ha ha, radio station wars."

You don't know the half of it. My musical career put me into that industry for half a decade, and I could tell tales.

The big thing is to break up the guy who is on the air. The game is to do something that will make him lose his focus, lose his place, make a mistake. He, of course, can't tell the listeners what is actually happening--he has to pretend everything is professional and orderly, no matter what happens. And the better he is at that, the more extreme the efforts are to break him.

I heard tell of one guy, station news director, who was so good that they hired a stripper to stand in front of the window and undress while he was doing the news. When this didn't ruffle him, their next attempt was to slip into the booth and proceed to undress him while he read. I'm told that he only hit the cough button (handy gadget that momentarily disconnects the mike) long enough to say, "Not the glasses", and finished the weather in his underwear.

I have no idea how you would do this in a game, though.

--M. J. Young

[Mark D. Eddy]

Well, I'd go with either East or West. The personal path to Enlightenment schtick is certainly a good thing, so I'll concentrate on the pacifist Buddhist monks concept. For those who care, I don't have more than an amateur's level knowledge of how Buddhist monks actually work.

With that caveat, then:

- Buddhist monks, much like western friars, are legendarily famous for being sent out as teachers into the countryside (I'm using a Chinese source here, so you know). They are just as famous for getting in the way of the local bureaucrats -- especially when competing for the best and brightest. This is a potential source of conflict.

- Enlightenment is hard to do (Karma, Karma, Tao dobie Tao Tao); there are a number of competing schools for how to achieve it. From strict asceticism to deranged carrying on, to meditation, anything goes.

- There *were* Christians (of a slightly odd sort) in China and India as early as the second century AD, so if you want to include that, you could.

Does any of this help?

[Jack Spencer Jr]

I've been giving this a bit of thought here's what I've come up with:

Your life sucks. You don't like your life. You don't like yourself. You feel trapped, trapped in your rut of an existence, powerless to get out. You are commiting a very slow emotional suicide as you die inside.

Then something happens and your life begins to change. Perhaps for the better, perhaps for the worse, but BY GOD it's different.

[Mike Holmes]

OK. At this point we have two completely different and irreconcilable premises being discussed here (or does somebody see a way to merge them?). I think we have to choose one and go with it. Please vote for your choice.

Radio wars

or

Monks

The premise that does not continue on here could, of course, start it's own thread.

Mike

[Mike Holmes]

Then something happens and your life begins to change. Perhaps for the better, perhaps for the worse, but BY GOD it's different.

Alright there, Jack?

Is this an addendum for one of the other premises posted? Mayhap this is how CharGen works, and how new monks are added to the organization?

Or is this a completely new premise idea?

Mike

[Emily Care]

Please vote for your choice.

                   Radio wars
                   or
                   Monks

Mark one down for monks.

[Jack Spencer Jr]

Alright there, Jack?

Is this an addendum for one of the other premises posted? Mayhap this is how CharGen works, and how new monks are added to the organization?

Or is this a completely new premise idea?

Better than I've been recently.

I guess I was just trying to get something more interesting to me going that, well, anything with the words "and they fight crime" tacked onto the end of it. So I guess it's a different premise idea, and it should probably break off into it's own thread if there's enough interest.

I've just been noticing this sort of story as a typical story that has been done in the Tim Allen vehicle Joe Somebody, the comedy My Big Fat Greek Wedding, and other films and stories like Fight Club and Cinderella.

It just struck me as a direction I'd rather go.

[talysman]

Please vote for your choice.

Radio wars

or

Monks

I'm for monks, of course. radio wars sound intriguing, but it almost seems too much like a personal vision; I would be afraid that too many cooks might spoil that broth.

ok, I have been reading too much of the iron game chef thread, I'm starting to think in food terms all the time...

[amiel]

What if you made the traits for the monks what they were short to acheive enlightenment? If they were western monks I would use the seven deadly sins, I dunno fer easterners. The objective is to bring all of your scores to zero.

[M. J. Young]

OK. At this point we have two completely different and irreconcilable premises being discussed here (or does somebody see a way to merge them?). I think we have to choose one and go with it. Please vote for your choice.

Radio wars

or

Monks

I should apologize. My posting was not intended to extend the Radio Wars concept; I was responding to the idea, but did not expect that it was going to be followed.

The Monk is the idea that dominates the thread; the Radio Wars idea doesn't at this point have enough substance to create much of anything.

I'm watching the Monk. I haven't contributed anything of substance at this point, but that's because everyone else is doing so well on it I'm just trying to keep up.

--M. J. Young

[talysman]

What if you made the traits for the monks what they were short to acheive enlightenment? If they were western monks I would use the seven deadly sins, I dunno fer easterners. The objective is to bring all of your scores to zero.

that's an idea.

also, reading your comment about western (christian) monks and eastern (buddhist or taoist) monks made me think: why not a different kind of monk? why not use a value system that isn't one of the major religions/philosophies?

gnostic monks, maybe? pythagoreans?