mass combat

[svenlein]

Occasionally people bring up wanting to do mass combat.  I?m not sure if this is true for most people, but if you are like I was you probably have only heard of the Warhammer mass combat systems.

Recently I started discovering many more systems with more an emphasis on simulation and less on displaying miniatures.

Here is a short list and review of some systems:

WRG 7th - This is the most detailed and complicated of the systems available (not necessarily best simulation though, just most detailed).
Warrior http://www.fourhorsemenenterprises.com/ - an newer version written in a more understandable style, its considered the American version of WRG 7; WRG, DBA, and DBM are all written in an "interesting" style that may give some people trouble trying to understand them.

De Bellis Antiquitatis (DBA) - the simplest system in this list, fairly easy to understand (once you get past the language which is English, but academic convoluted English)

De Bellis Multitudinis (DBM) - a more complicated version of DBA, designed to handle larger battles

Medieval Warfare http://www.saga-publishing.com - one of my personal favorites, morale has more play in this system, specifically designed for medieval battle

Archon (also called Piquet) - an interesting set of rules, less focused on matching between troops, has a deck of event cards that make the battle more flowing in an effort to be more like a real general?s perspective of a battle.

Here?s a more complete list with longer reviews: http://theminiaturespage.com/rules/med/land.html

My favorites are probably Medieval Warfare and Piquet.

What are other people opinions of mass combat systems they have seen?

If people want I can find some battle report links and post them.  I think that is one of the best ways to find out how a system works short of playing it.

Scott

[Durgil]

I have no experience running or playing in a mass combat situation, but would love to have a system that adequately covers that, even if it is only in the name of rules completeness.  Thanks for the info, and I keep watching this topic for updates.  Isn't this subject going to be covered in The Flower of Battle as well?

[arxhon]

I believe that mass combat is going to be covered in TFOB.

The only mass combat i've previously done in an RPG is while playing WFRP, and that was a slightly abstracted, "figureless" version of WFB. I play both systems, so i know most of the stats in WFB terms, and the system there is easily resolved with three rolls of d6. Worked very nicely.

To date, i have run one tactical skirmish in TROS. I resolved it with an opposed Tactics skill roll between the PC in charge and the enemy sergeant each round. I admit it was rather quick and very dirt, both the decision to do this way, and the fight itself, but basically it did the trick.

I most definitely look forward to The Flower of Battle.

[toli]

GUPRS used to have a mass combat system that you could down load for free. I can't remember exactly where it was, but it isn't a bad system.  It is abstract.  You calculate army strengths and use the PCs strategy, tactics, leadership and weapons skill rolls to determine the out come.  It could probably be easily adapted to TROS while waiting for TFOB to come out....

NT

[svenlein]

yea, i was only talking about less abstract games, there's a whole heep of abstract wargames.

What is the plan for TFOB - abstract (one dice roll resolves the whole combat), or less like some of the games I mentioned before?

Scott

[Lance D. Allen]

I think that perhaps mass combat could be handled as a sort of macroscopic version of individual combat, with move and countermove, feints, diversions, charges, sets and retreats all acting much the same way as maneuvers.

TRoS combat is by far the most realistic I've ever seen, and quite a bit of fun besides. We've discussed adapting it to social combat, why not adapt it to mass melee as well?

[Ben Lehman]

I think that perhaps mass combat could be handled as a sort of macroscopic version of individual combat, with move and countermove, feints, diversions, charges, sets and retreats all acting much the same way as maneuvers.

BL>  There was some discussion of that in this thread, here:
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=5194

If I had a mass-combat centrered game, I would have a lot more to say about the topic.  But I don't, so I don't.

[Brian Leybourne]

TRoS combat is by far the most realistic I've ever seen ... why not adapt it to mass melee as well?

Yup, that's the plan.

Brian.

[Chris]

Its now long out of print, but ICE did a WarLaw for Rolemaster detailing mass combat, sometime before '96.  I've been looking for it for years, but as I remember it, it had a great balance between abstractly dealing with huge forces and allowing characters to control the flow of battle.

[Chris]

There's a copy of Warlaw on e-bay right now for $99.  I suppose THATS why I haven't been able to find it . . .

[Salamander]

There's a copy of Warlaw on e-bay right now for $99.  I suppose THATS why I haven't been able to find it . . .

*hugs long and well used copy of Warlaw tightly*
YOU CAN"T HAVE IT! IT"S MINE!!!

Besides, it seems that ICE has worked out some kind of deal with Guild Companion to reprint much of the old stuff, or at least put it inot PDF...

[Eamon Voss]

I was not impressed by War Law.  It would be better to spend your money by buying everyone you know copies of TROS and TFOB!

[Brian Leybourne]

It would be better to spend your money by buying everyone you know copies of TROS and TFOB!

And lets not forget OBAM... :-)

Brian.

[Lance D. Allen]

I was not impressed by War Law. It would be better to spend your money by buying everyone you know copies of TROS and TFOB!

True enough, but it wouldn't hurt to look at other supplements which did mass combat rules to see what they did right, and what they did wrong. Research is often key to a good product, after all.

[Chris]

I wasn't actually suggesting anyone SPEND $99 to get Warlaw, just that it was a good product and out there.  Hell, there are thousands of things that $99 could go towards - a large percentage of my RENT for one. . .