Gamer Mailing List

[Matt Gwinn]

The recent topic "The Dancey Ratio and the Strange Case of the Missing Gamers" has got me thinking.

The company I work for derives a great deal of business from the use of mailing lists.  Until about 5 years ago, when we went online, all of our business came through our mail order catalogs.  We buy mailing lists that cover all sorts of groups, so why can't a gaming company buy a gamer mailing list?

My guess is that no one has taken the time to establish one.  It seems to me that WOTC could make a lot of cash selling off the home addresses of the 30,000+ that attend GENCON every year.  Expand upon that with lists from other cons, gaming stores and online sites and you have a huge section of the gaming population!  I think it would be far easier to make contact with the general gaming public this way.  All it takes is to catch the atteention of one member of a reclusive gaming group.

Now granted, no one likes to receive junk mail, but I don't think I would mind gaming related junk mail...even on a daily basis.  I get a post card about once a month from a gaming store in Toledo, and I'm happy to recieve it.  It says to me that they appreciate my business and want me to come back.

Any thoughts?

,Matt Gwinn[/u]

[Matt Snyder]

Just one quick thought -- using existing databases that a company like WotC might already have can be problematic legally. The issue is one of privacy policies; if WotC has such a list (via, say, Dragon subscriptions), it's likely they specified a privacy policy. Selling the list to marketers could be an infringement of that policy, for example.

[Matt Machell]

Mr Snyder is right, there are probably privacy policy issues with existing lists.

That said, if you could get in with a larger con organiser, and have some sort of "I don't mind being mailed cool RPG tat" clause put on the signup for the con, then it's not an issue.

-Matt

[Mike Holmes]

That said, if you could get in with a larger con organiser, and have some sort of "I don't mind being mailed cool RPG tat" clause put on the signup for the con, then it's not an issue.

Don't they do that already? I mean I could swear that they asked for your email address onthe registration form, with a note that says that if you include it that they'll use it. Maybe I'm misremembering, but I coulda sworn there was something like that.

If not, all it would take is convincing Mr. Adkison to include the check box and field on the form.

That said, I habitually check the "please don't use this" or just don't include my real email on such forms. Just a habit picked up over time trying to avoid spam. I mean there's always the nagging feeling that they're going to sell the list to BiggerDick.com.

But I suppose it could be worded such that it would seem more attractive.

Ther real way to get this going, however is to have some non-profit gaming advocacy group do it. Then you know it'll be handled correctly. The problem is I'm sure this happens now, but with only limited success. Who knows.

Mike

[Matt Gwinn]

I realize there could be legal issues with using current data,
but there is nothing stoping WOTC from leaving that clause out next year.  It wouldn't stop me from registering for the con.  Plus, I'm only talking hypotheticals here.

My point is that people do make mailing lists and sell them.  So, why are there none aimed at gamers?  And if there are, why is my mail box empty?

I think having a gamer mailing list would be good for everyone.  It potentially helps businesses sell more product and introduces gamers to new games they may not have gone looking for on their own.

If someone (like one of us) was interested in starting something like this, how would you go about it?

Would something like this piss you off?

,Matt G.

[quozl]

What would each person receive if they were on this hypothetical mailing list?

[Ron Edwards]

Is it an absolutely dreadful idea for the Forge itself to have such a list? Probably not for game-discussion, 'cause that's what goes on in the forums, but mainly for purposes of organizing play and getting news about various games?

Does anyone have any ideas or notions about that? Particularly regarding how much of a horrific pain in the ass it would be for the person who runs it? Which isn't going to be me, or, I venture to say without asking first, Clinton either.

Best,
Ron

[Andy Kitkowski]

If someone (like one of us) was interested in starting something like this, how would you go about it?

Would something like this piss you off?

Excellent Idea!

I for one would not mind a ton of Real RPG Junk Mail coming to my house. Not even for d20 crap stuff! And I feel that others wouldn't, either.

But to get folks interested, I think you have to do two things:

1) BE enthusiastic, use vibrant colors, say things like, "Do you wish you got more RPG and game-themed mail? Fill out this form, and we'll make sure it happens!"

2) And this is the most important part, PEOPLE HATE EMAIL SPAM with the fire of a thousand suns. Tell people that you won't give their email address away. Put it in bold, underline it, and maybe even make it blink. In fact, if possible, don't even include a place for people to input their email address, just in case they feel wary of it.

But yeah, I think if you get something started, it'll be cool. Not only would I sign up for something like that, I know that I'd definitely use it to send mass mailings if I were pushing one of my (possible) future (vaporware) releases.

It totally beats the shit outta contacting every LGS in the known universe and asking them to post your little postcard ad on their gaming bulletin boards...

-Andy

[Andy Kitkowski]

Is it an absolutely dreadful idea for the Forge itself to have such a list? Probably not for game-discussion, 'cause that's what goes on in the forums, but mainly for purposes of organizing play and getting news about various games?

Wasn't there talk of someone organizing this before?  I think it was around (or slightly before) I started trolling for the Indie RPG Awards thing. Again, anything that brings more RPG info to my apartment's mailbox is OK by me. I think the project in discussion was kind of a "brochure" or "guide" of indie games, like a catalog, but then the poster (or someone else) expanded the idea to include direct mailings, etc.

Whoever grabs the reins on this one will have my support and admiration. :-)

Particularly regarding how much of a horrific pain in the ass it would be for the person who runs it?

Er, actually, in my business environment, the person with the excellent idea is usually the one assigned to carrying it out.* Good luck Matt! :)

-Andy

*Another method often used in staff meetings: "One - Two - Three - NOT IT!"

[Matt Gwinn]

I wouldn't mind doing it, but I would need to figure out how to get started.  Trolling here and RPG.net for address won't acomplish a whole lot considering the ability to post your info in two places for free would negate the need for the list to begin with.

I'd need addresses of people that don't go to the Forge or RPG.net.  I'd need those elusive gamers that never leave their house or discuss gaming outside their own little social group.

I'm thinking that having a sign-up sheet at GENCON and Origins would be useful and probaly get more names than any other method.  
Anyone have any other ideas?

And more importantly, is there a market for such a list?  the fact that no one has done it before suggests to me that there may not be.  Would game companies be willing to give me cash in exchange for a list of few hundred addresses of gamers?  A few thousand?

And how many gaming companies have the budget to do mass mailings?

Is there a market outside of Game Designers?  Maybe retailers?  I can see retailers being quite willing to buy a localized list of gamers, especially if they are not current customers.

How many addresses do you think would be needed to start?

,Matt G.

[Ron Edwards]

Wait wait, I'm still confused. What's the list actually for? I mean, what information does it convey?

Best,
Ron

[Andy Kitkowski]

I'm assuming here that the list is gathered and sold (eventually) to anyone who has RPG/game related stuff they want to market directly to the client.  So Mongoose or WOTC or Joe Indies goes to Matt, pays him for x number of names/addresses, puts them on file, and mass-mails them postcards, pamphlets, catalogues (ok: "Yeah, right" on this one, but the others are viable), etc.

Just marketing.

I'm thinking what Ron has in mind is something a little different... Maybe something similar for indie folk, where no selling is needed to hand the addresses to the potential marketers?

-Andy

[Clay]

Okay, I've actually managed these kinds of lists, and looked a little into the marketing of them.

Keeping your lists current takes a good bit of work.  Expect to spend a little time every day for a week or two after each mailing, culling the list for returned mail. Getting the addresses isn't particularly hard.  You just need to get out and ask likely people if they are interested.  It's as easy as putting cards out in your convention booth for people to fill out.  The cards don't even need to be flashy, just obvious in their purpose.

I haven't looked at the rates for explicit purchase of a list, because a list isn't very useful without a printing and mailing service to go with it. My local printer offers this as a service at what turns out to be a fairly reasonable rate once you count postage and printing.  I don't remember prices offhand, but postage alone is 15 cents per address (bulk rate), so you're not getting out for less than about 25 cents per address on your mailing.

I'm willing to manage this list and act as a broker for the printing and mailing, if people are going to be interested in using it and want to help collect addresses. Fair warning though that if you don't have a few hundred dollars to blow on a single mass mailing, this service is probably going to quickly be out of your reach once names start coming in.

[Ron Edwards]

Ack! That's not what I had in mind at all. Not that it should matter to anyone, but I was just thinkin' of something else entirely.

Best,
Ron

[Mike Holmes]

Me, too. Snail Mail? Paper? Yikes.

People still do that stuff?

Mike