Gamism, Simulationism, and Narrativism: A brief pause....

[Morfedel]

I just took the time to read Ron Edward's article on game system DOES matter, and I noticed his breakdown of Gamism, Narrativism, and Simulationism.

I don't think that hardcore classifying any player into one of these categories works. Take into account, well, me.

I love Amber! Its about the most Narrativistic game I've ever played! But, I don't mind D&D, I think its ok, although a bit tried by now. Godlike, I love! And while it uses a simple rolling mechanic, it covers a lot of area, and lends itself the feel of simulationism!

So far, my favorite games are, in no particular order:

TRoS
Amber Diceless RPG
Godlike
DC Heroes (not DC Universe, blech!)
Ars Magica
Skyrealms of Jorune

I notice that most of these probably lean a bit more into Simulationism than narrativism, but I love Amber, and think its an awesome game system!

So... What does that make me? A Primary Simulationist / Secondary Narrativist? :)

I find I usually tend to like game systems with steamlined game mechanics - with some meat, but fast and streamlined, covering a lot of area and having a lot of meat, but not fatty. :)

[Valamir]

That article is about several years old, and is more of the starting point for the theory kept for historical documentation.  The other GNS articles are much more developed and state of the art.

Feel free to read them and post questions to the GNS forum (the forum designed to actually discuss GNS).

[Bankuei]

Hi M,

Welcome to the scary world of GNS :)

First, to summarise some very solid points-

-GNS cannot solidly "classify" people.  That is, "Gamist player" means "someone who tends to, but not always, make Gamist decisions", just in the same way when you say, "Chicken-eater" you've got someone who eats a lot of, but not only(we hope!) chicken.  

-Amber + Other Games

While Amber can be played Nar style, no one can say without observation of you actually playing a game, where you stand in the GNS scale.  You can play Amber Sim or Gamist just as well, same with any game.  Don't necessarily assume that because a game makes a certain style of play easy, that it is indicative of how it actually gets run.

-What kind of gamer am I?

Also to the first point, what kind of GNS stuff you prefer doesn't really matter except to you and your group.  The point of identifying it isn't about trying to classify it, but rather seeing where any conflict may occur within your group, and what kind of play you enjoy, so you can get more of it.  Therefore, going, "I'm 70% this and 30% that" is kinda pointless.  All you need to do is recognize, "Hey, I like this, and I like this too!, Oh, that, that over there is ok, but not like I like this!", etc.

-Heavy/Light rules

Totally seperate of GNS, and has nothing to do with your GNS preferences.  

You'll also want to really check out this thread right here:

http://indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=1578

Chris

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

I think the first go-to thread is this one:

GNS - what is it?

I think that further talk about this should go the GNS Discussion forum, although that's Jake's call.

Best,
Ron

[Morfedel]

I was just trying to stir up some other conversation here, but if its necessary to keep discussions staight-and-narrow, then that's understandable.

[Jake Norwood]

I'm happy having it here, because a lot of folks don't leave the TROS forum and I think it's worth talking about, OTOH i would be more at home in the GNS forum. Your call, Morfedel.

Jake

[Morfedel]

Let's keep it here; I rarely leave the TRoS forum myself.... :)

[Poenz]

For what I'm about to say, "here" is the most appropriate space anyway.

Our gaming group has been talking about this a bit, and I've sort of come to think of it like Spiritual Attributes.  Take ten points and divide them up among the lot.  So for a given gaming session I might be G=2, N=5, and S=3.  It's not a conscious decision on my part to play that way, it's just the way it falls out.  I've played too many CRPGs to get away from my Gamist tendencies; I'm all about character concept and story so Narrativism is going to tend to be a focus; but at the same time, I like to "poke around" the GM's setting to find out how deep he's gone with it. And during the course of the game, different situations will evoke different tendencies--just like SAs.

Now I might not be interpreting the ideas all that correctly, but I've found it helpful when trying to diagnose why a certain session/campaign/ruleset wasn't as fun as it probably could have been.  And it's also interesting when you have that flash of self-awareness as you see yourself sliding into a certain gaming behavior.

Now if I can just convince the GM to let me get bonuses to my CP for it...

~PO

[Mike Holmes]

Actually, Poenz, sounds like you have it dead on to me.

My play probably looks a lot like yours. Maybe one less G, and one more S, but maybe not.

Mike

[Morfedel]

I dont think I have very much G at all; using your scheme, 1 pt if any; I enjoy telling a rich, detailed story, but in terms of resolution I lean towards simulationism, so I guess its a 5 S / 4 N for me.

[Lance D. Allen]

Hm. This is an interesting exercise you've started here, Poenz.

I've definitely got my gamist tendencies, but they're much less than others. I don't really like to compete in roleplaying, being much more inclined to cooperate, even with the player of an enemy, to create a cool scene. But at the same time, I LOVE character advancement. I'll definitely brag about how my character has gotten statistically better over the course of the game. It's important to me to get access to new skills and abilities. So..

G: 2
N: 3
S: 5

I know I didn't mention my simulationist tendencies, but previous discussions in these fora have highlighted them immensely. Story is definitely a priority, but it HAS to make sense in the context of the characters. I get deeply into "My Guy" syndrome ("It's what My Guy would do!") but I do try to look at the options to create a good scene or story. (My guy might do this, or he might do this.. Which would be more interesting/appropriate/ironic/humorous in this situation?)

[Nick the Nevermet]

I have absolutely no idea what kind of mix I am.  I suspect it changes very quickly, depending on who I am playing with, etc.

The real value of GNS for me is that it points out that roleplaying can have different goals, and at any given moment, every player playing will be prioritizing those goals.  It is not that the goals are incompatible as much as they can't all happen equally well all the time.

So, using things like a good system and a contract among the players, people can try to clearly establish what they want to get out of a specific game, and how they get it.

[Morfedel]

Has anyone seen those personality tests, such as the Myers-Briggs, or those things like "What alignment are you?"

Maybe we should do a "What kind of gamer combo are you" test, heh.

[Lxndr]

There is one!  Let me see if I can find the URL.

Edited in later

Here it is!

M.J. Young's Gamer Type Quiz.  I have an issue with some of the questions and the way they're phrased (some answers he's categorized as one type can be answered high if looking at it in certain ways) but overall, I love the quiz, I couldn't have come up with anything as good, and I'm hoping one day it gets expanded and updated.  :)

[Bankuei]

Hi guys,

Polling and quizzing to find out what your GNS preferences are about as useful as asking "What's your favorite color?"  GNS has about 2 places of value:  How you relate to others in your group GNS-wise during play, and what games help you and your group facilitate your GNS goals.  Finding out your personal GNS bent is a matter of observation in play over a period of time.  

Chris