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In GNS Model Discussion

3/7/2002 jburneko: Character Simulationism & Narrativism
This is an extention of my ever changing quest to clearly define the lines between certain brands of 'story oriented' simulationism and Narrativism. I think I've finally nailed the difference…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jburneko, Mike Holmes, Valamir, Gordon C. Landis.

3/7/2002 joe_llama: GNS Showdown
(This post also appears on RPG Net for a different purpose) First, I'm supposed to use this time slot to write game design comments for Universalis and instead I'm wasting…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: joe_llama, J B Bell, Le Joueur, Seth L. Blumberg, C. Edwards, contracycle, Bankuei, Mike Holmes, Fabrice G., Emily Care, Valamir, Ron Edwards, Blake Hutchins.

3/7/2002 Ian O'Rourke: GNS on RPG.NET
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2781 Another theory proposed, and probably another debate off miss-quotes and 'don't label me comments' on rpg.net. Might be worth checking out.
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ian O'Rourke, Valamir, gentrification, Christopher Kubasik, Mytholder, Blake Hutchins.

3/1/2002 Valamir: Ported GNS Thread from Sorcerer
As Ron pointed out one of the threads over in the Sorcerer forum evolved into a GNS discussion and by rights should be over here. So since Gordon made some…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, joshua neff.

2/21/2002 Christopher Kubasik: Simulationsit Reality and Narrativist Reality
Oops. My bad. I just resurrected a thread Jesse had started eight months ago. My intention wasn't so much to give Jesse advice (I assume he'd probably dealt with the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Christopher Kubasik, Ron Edwards, A.Neill, Gordon C. Landis, Paul Czege, joshua neff, Steve Dustin, jburneko, lumpley.

2/19/2002 Tim Denee: Criminal fiction GNS model
I was reading a book about writing criminal fiction, (as in fiction detailing criminals, not rogue fictional characters...), and came across this in the foreword. If you can't see the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Tim Denee, contracycle.

2/16/2002 Seth L. Blumberg: Styles of Simulationist systems
A certain amount of thought seems to have gone into developing a typology of Narrativist systems (abashed, vanilla, and "new school"/balls-to-the-wall being the three types that spring to mind). I'm…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Seth L. Blumberg, Ron Edwards, Paul Czege, Mike Holmes.

2/14/2002 Steve Dustin: Narritivist vs. Simulationist:Situation
Let's see if I got this straight. Having read the essay various times and read these threads I'm understanding Narritivism and Simulationism for Situation as so: Narritivism: focus on story/theme…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Steve Dustin, Ron Edwards, Clinton R. Nixon, contracycle, Mike Holmes, jburneko.

2/11/2002 Silent Tamatama: Abashed Vanilliaism
Seen two new terms (new for me anyway) called Vanilla Narrativism and Abashed Narrativism can anyone fill me in on what they are?
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silent Tamatama, Paul Czege, J B Bell, Ron Edwards, Le Joueur, joe_llama, Knight.

2/8/2002 lumpley: Drawing Conclusions in Public
In far distant Actual Play, Ron says So here I am, Narrativist player, "playing my character." Do I think, "What would he do?" Sure I do! In my case,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: lumpley, Ron Edwards, Marco, Jared A. Sorensen, Logan, contracycle, Valamir, Gordon C. Landis, A.Neill, Jack Spencer Jr, Mike Holmes, Blake Hutchins, Paul Czege, Emily Care, Le Joueur.

1/31/2002 Fabrice G.: Scenario in a Narrativist game ?
Well hi every one, it's one of my first post so i want to tanks all of you for being very inspirational and every thing ...(well you'll only get this…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Fabrice G., Zak Arntson, Uncle Dark, contracycle, Ron Edwards, furashgf.

1/28/2002 james_west: Ron's Essay
I've been busy - hadn't got around to reading Ron's essay before now. So, my take on it: First, it's marvelously well written - very rigorous. Even if you don't…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: james_west, Ron Edwards, Le Joueur, Paul Czege.

1/21/2002 Stivven: Size limits for narrativist play
I was just wondering...what's the average group size is for primarily Narrativist play? I've been musing a little over immersion in LARPs and it struck me that I don't think…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Stivven, Ron Edwards, Paul Czege, Bankuei, Laurel.

1/21/2002 Gordon C. Landis: "What's produced" vs. "In play"
Boy, I hope I'm not poking at a hornet's nest here - if that's the feeling anyone gets, ignore this post. Elsewhere, Ron posted this tidbit: A little note…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis, Ron Edwards, Logan, jburneko, J B Bell, contracycle.

1/20/2002 Manu: A GNS model of Fading Suns ?
Hey, I thought I should pick your brains before launching into it, so here it goes: What in your opinion would be a quick model/description of Fading Suns in terms…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Manu, Mike Holmes.

1/20/2002 Manu: Eventually Narrativist
Hello Forgers, I'm working on a home brew system, but I'm running into a weird obstacle: the game has to be initially Simulationist, but will gradually evolve into Narrativism. I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Manu, Ron Edwards, Paul Czege, Joe Murphy (Broin), hardcoremoose.

1/18/2002 contracycle: Differing goals
[quote="Ron Edwards"] As another example (that is often missed), I am perfectly happy with the notion that primarily Simulationist play can <i>include</i> the concept of "story" as a context or…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: contracycle, Ron Edwards.

1/18/2002 Laurel: Its All About Intent
This is a break off of the big Narrativism thread, because I think something is getting overlooked by a few folks that is important in Forge discussions in general. There…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Laurel.

1/17/2002 Logan: Replacing
..
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Logan, Jared A. Sorensen, Ron Edwards, Paganini, Clinton R. Nixon, Mike Holmes, jburneko, Laurel, Gordon C. Landis, Paul Czege, Mytholder, contracycle, A.Neill, Marco, Le Joueur.

1/17/2002 Gordon C. Landis: Design theory vs. play desires
Seemed like I should split this out of the Narrativism thread if I wanted to comment on it - and I do . . . So I think so…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis, Jared A. Sorensen, Ron Edwards, Laurel, Marco, Paganini, Le Joueur.

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Subsequent Topics
In GNS Model Discussion

3/12/2002 contracycle: model proposition
Well, having spent some time trawling through RPGnet, and participated in various back and forths here and there, I thought I'd take the opportunity to lay out a diffiuclty I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: contracycle, Valamir, Mike Holmes, Le Joueur, Ron Edwards, Laurel, Gordon C. Landis, Marco, Mytholder, Walt Freitag.

3/12/2002 Ron Edwards: Seven major misconceptions about GNS
Hello, Given the most recent mishegoss about the topic on RPG.net, and putting aside for the moment various personal attacks on me, I thought I'd outline the wide variety of…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards, Jack Spencer Jr, joshua neff, Christopher Kubasik, Thor Olavsrud.

3/12/2002 GB Steve: (Split from "Seven Misconceptions") Cult of GNS
[quote="joshua neff"] [i]Citing a point Ron made by starting a sentence with "Ron said..." is not slavish & cultish devotion, but merely citation. Also, agreeing with something someone (for example,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: GB Steve, Clinton R. Nixon, Steve Dustin, Gordon C. Landis, Mike Holmes, Valamir, Ron Edwards, Jack Spencer Jr, Bankuei, Blake Hutchins, Matt Snyder, Christopher Kubasik, Laurel.

3/12/2002 Gordon C. Landis: Side Issues
EDIT: Uh, it'd be fine with me if this got merged in with the response Clinton made when he split-off Steve's post . . . I wanted to respond to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis, Ron Edwards.

3/13/2002 Gordon C. Landis: Top valid concerns about GNS
I thought this might be another angle to take at reducing the furor/missunderstandings around GNS - explicitly acknowledging where issues exist and where rational individuals may disagree. I've only got…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Mytholder, Le Joueur, Laurel, Clinton R. Nixon, J B Bell.

3/14/2002 Laurel: Does GNS Make Me Happier?
This is a split off of Top Concerns for GNS based on Clinton's response that GNS was influential on Donjon and Donjon's success as a topic of conversation is making…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Laurel, Christopher Kubasik, J B Bell, AndyGuest, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, contracycle, unodiablo, Gordon C. Landis, Seth L. Blumberg, Ian O'Rourke, Logan, deidzoeb, Clinton R. Nixon, Ian Cooper, Bankuei, WhistlinFiend, Valamir, Blake Hutchins.

3/16/2002 Valamir: GNS incoherency
Mike and I spent a good couple hours discussing this last weekend (after his entire gaming group bailed on us....;-) I thought it would make for an interesting discussion. We…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, Ron Edwards.

3/21/2002 Butch: a little bit of controversy?!
Hello everybody! Just a little topic to go with the previous one ("a new rpg")!!! I have this rpg that I'm designing (I have the premise, a good idea of…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Butch, Valamir, Laurel, xiombarg, Clinton R. Nixon, Garbanzo, Ron Edwards, joshua neff.

3/22/2002 Butch: again, with the GNS model!
I was just thinking about a way to explain the GNS way and I came with this (if it's been already discussed please... feel free to crucify me!!!): Can the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Butch, joshua neff, Clinton R. Nixon, xiombarg, Valamir, Christopher Kubasik, Laurel, Mike Holmes.

3/25/2002 Valamir: Motivations in GNS
[quote="Ron Edwards wrote:"] Hey Ralph, I'm a liiiiittle uncomfortable with your phraseology, although I do agree that we're aiming at the same thing. I don't think we are dealing with…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, Ron Edwards.

3/27/2002 Fabrice G.: GNS and game design
(i don't know if this should go here, or in the game design forum) Okay, I've a question for all the GNS-rpg developpers. If the player make a decision to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Fabrice G., Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes.

3/27/2002 Clinton R. Nixon: The Axioms of RPG Design (or, blasting away at the argument)
I find it bizarre, and somewhat ludicrous, that "GNS Model Discussion" is the second-most busy forum at the Forge. We've argued this thing to death, and I think it's high…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Clinton R. Nixon, jburneko, gentrification, Mike Holmes, Tim C Koppang, Zak Arntson, Julian Kelsey, Knight, Bankuei.

3/28/2002 Laurel: Dramatism & Other Behaviors- New Level
This is breaking off from the model proposition and related threads. It made complete sense to me to look at Dramatism and other behavior-based classifications as a step building upon…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Laurel, Mike Holmes, Valamir, Le Joueur, contracycle.

3/28/2002 Valamir: Dramatism, what is it.
[quote="Mytholder"][quote="Valamir"] What you are describing as D, as an observable behavior and as a "fully functional" play style I believe is well explained by GNS as follows. [u]Dramatism: [/u]A game…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, Mytholder, contracycle, Le Joueur, Mike Holmes, Paul Czege, Gordon C. Landis, Jared A. Sorensen.

3/29/2002 jburneko: Simulationism, Still Causing Problems
Looking over the Dramatism threads it seems to me that Simulationism is still causing problems. And it seems to me that the REASON Simulationism is still causing problems is that…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jburneko, Blake Hutchins, Zak Arntson, Brian Hose, Jared A. Sorensen, Christopher Kubasik, contracycle, Felderin, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards.

3/30/2002 Walt Freitag: GNS and "Congruency"
GNS and "Congruency" This idea was inspired by all the recent GNS discussion using examples of individual game decisions that are ambiguous in terms of revealing the GNS decision-making preferences…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Walt Freitag, Laurel, Ron Edwards, Valamir, lumpley, Mike Holmes, Le Joueur, Gordon C. Landis, Danny Cline.

4/4/2002 Christopher Kubasik: The New Guy Has a Question
Over in another thread, Brian wrote: ***** Hi guys, Name's Brian and I'm fairly new around these cyber-parts. Your discussion really twigged my interest cos I'm developing a game of…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Christopher Kubasik, contracycle, Brian Hose, Mike Holmes, Valamir.

4/4/2002 Brian Hose: Objective/super-objective and the role
Hi, Brian here. This comes from the "New guy has a question" thread. I have no idea about how to create links back and forth. If someone wants to tell…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Brian Hose, Laurel, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Danny Cline, contracycle, Wolfen, Christopher Kubasik, Valamir, Gordon C. Landis, lumpley.

4/13/2002 Mario: Narrativism and the Campaign
After playing several Narrativist games, with Ron and Dav, I'm am curious if it is possible to play a Narrativist game as a Campaign. By Campaign I mean a game…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mario, Laurel, Ben Morgan, Stivven, Seth L. Blumberg, Zak Arntson, Le Joueur, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards.

4/23/2002 Jack Spencer Jr: recognizing the limitations
Okay. This is partly inspired by Clinton's axioms. It may seem like an anti-GNS spiel, and it probably is, but hear me out. You see, GNS hasn&#8217;t been sitting with…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jack Spencer Jr, Ron Edwards, Le Joueur, Blake Hutchins.

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