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In GNS Model Discussion

4/1/2004 Sean: Social Mode Redux/Response to Cruciel
In another thread, Cruciel suggested that the proposed Social Mode was a subset of Sim. My response: - One could have Sim play aimed at Exploration of Participants, or (to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Sean, clehrich, M. J. Young, beingfrank, cruciel.

4/1/2004 ethan_greer: Primal Gamism
So, lots of smart people have shaped some common bodies of thought that boil down to the following little factoid that will operate as a given for the remainder of…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: ethan_greer, Sean, Ron Edwards, greyorm, cruciel, Valamir, Balesir, sirogit, BPetroff93, M. J. Young, contracycle, C. Edwards, Jaik.

4/1/2004 Balesir: Yet Another Newbie Take on GNS...
Hi! I'm new here, so first a brief introduction. My name is Andy Gibson, I live in the Northeast of England and my background encompasses engineering, IT and commercial planning.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Balesir, RDU Neil, Alan, Ron Edwards, rafial, greyorm, M. J. Young.

4/1/2004 Storn: Creation & Agenda
Okay, I'm reading two threads, my own that I started; Gm is god. And the Hard Question part deux. And Hard Question takes as a link to an older discussion,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Storn, Ron Edwards, Walt Freitag, Alan, M. J. Young.

4/1/2004 M. J. Young: The Hard Question extended
I'm a bit miffed that Neil's thread The Hard Question got closed so quickly after such a shocking and, in my view, wrong-headed turn. In essence, the thread began…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: M. J. Young, Valamir, beingfrank, RDU Neil, clehrich, Ian Charvill, Silmenume, contracycle, Storn, Ron Edwards, cruciel, Rob Carriere, pete_darby, Bankuei.

3/31/2004 cruciel: Removing the Incentive for Gamism
I've been milling over something for a while now, and given the current threads it seems like an appropriate time to ask this question. The typical way to deal with…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: cruciel, Jasper, ethan_greer, coxcomb, Bankuei, M. J. Young, Ben Lehman, Rob Carriere, John Kim, Umberhulk, Jack Spencer Jr, Amadeus, contracycle, pete_darby.

3/31/2004 montag: Cross-cultural "data" on Gam vs. Sim
Alright, I'd like to add to the debate on the "naturalness" of Sim play, by having a look at some cross-cultural "data" from Germany. Previous relevant threads include (from earliest…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: montag, Valamir, Ian Charvill, pete_darby, Ron Edwards, M. J. Young.

3/31/2004 Storn: God/god of the game.
Over in Nar Hard Knock Life thread: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=10469 This was said: 'the DM is God' thing That being in the context of 80's game text... not as a confirmation. Inf…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Storn, Ian Charvill, Sean, Jack Spencer Jr, Blankshield, coxcomb, Valamir, Gordon C. Landis, M. J. Young, Jasper, Ron Edwards, Paul Czege, RDU Neil, Emily Care, Noon, pete_darby, Rob Carriere.

3/31/2004 ethan_greer: The Nar Hard Question, Factor 1
So, over in this thread, I raised some points that I'd like to discuss further. Three of them, actually. This is the first one. Many (many many) Sim game texts…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: ethan_greer, coxcomb, Ron Edwards, Valamir, Sean, Ian Charvill, montag, Gordon C. Landis, Rob Carriere, contracycle.

3/31/2004 clehrich: How do I define this?
Over in The hard question Jesse brought up an anecdote that really hit me over the head. Let me start by quoting it, for those who didn't go through that…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: clehrich, coxcomb, Noon, Valamir, Walt Freitag, cruciel.

3/30/2004 RDU Neil: The hard question...
From Narrativism: Story Now The hard question I suggest that both Gamist and Narrativist priorities are clear and automatic, with easy-to-see parallels in other activities and apparently founded upon a…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: RDU Neil, Valamir, rafial, coxcomb, John Kim, jburneko, pete_darby, greyorm, Storn, montag, beingfrank, Jack Spencer Jr, Scourge108, Caldis, M. J. Young, Noon, ethan_greer, Alan, Ron Edwards.

3/30/2004 ptevis: Using Author Stance for good instead of evil
Metagaming: It's that dreaded topic in RPGs where the rulebook warns you "be sure to keep player and character knowledge separate." This is quite clearly a prohibition against anything except…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: ptevis, Alan, clehrich, timfire, coxcomb, John Kim, RDU Neil, Ron Edwards, Gaerik, M. J. Young.

3/29/2004 ptevis: I think it's start to sink in
I've been lurking here for quite some time, and when I first read the various GNS articles, they didn't make much sense to me. Over time, I think I've started…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: ptevis, Valamir, Jack Spencer Jr, coxcomb, Ron Edwards, Blankshield, Emily Care, clehrich.

3/27/2004 Scourge108: Non-GNS conflict
[quote="Rob Carriere"]I would agree that it would be very nice to have a reviewer state their GNS preferences up front and also that, in the absence of such a statement,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Scourge108, pete_darby, Ron Edwards, cruciel.

3/26/2004 taalyn: Narrativism and Fortune mechanics
Generally, games specifically for Narr playing see to have these few specific characteristics: - no GM, i.e. collaborative - resource management for conflict resolution - conflict resolution is usually between…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: taalyn, xiombarg, Michael S. Miller.

3/25/2004 Ian.Plumb: GNS -- Is that pronounced Genius?
Hi, I have recently read Ron's article on the GNS model. What an eye-opener! Having played one RPG (Chivalry & Sorcery) in one campaign setting (Middle-Earth) for nearly twenty years…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ian.Plumb, Shreyas Sampat, Alan, Valamir, montag, Noon, clehrich, Ron Edwards, Trevis Martin, Rob Carriere.

3/25/2004 Luke Sineath: Games and their styles
I'm new to the Forge. Hello. I've been reading the highly interesting articles on GNS, and R. Edward's note on whether a gaming system can influence the style of play.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Luke Sineath, Eero Tuovinen, Ron Edwards.

3/24/2004 Alan: Bangs, Crises, and Inciting Events
[b]Bangs, Crises, and Inciting Events[/b] The following ideas grew out of these threads in Actual Play: [a href "http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=10372" ]Bangs, bangs and more bangs![/a] [a href "http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=10362" ]Bangs and Narrativism...…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Alan, Gaerik, taalyn, M. J. Young, Henri, contracycle, Silmenume, Steve Samson, RDU Neil.

3/24/2004 sirogit: Narrativism, the juicy parts of the system and Risk
It occured to me that a complaint I hear sometimes against TROS is that the most intereasting part of it's system, the combat system, is wasted because players playing it…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: sirogit, Gaerik, Andrew Norris, Rob Carriere, pete_darby, Jack Spencer Jr, RDU Neil, Alan, Gordon C. Landis, M. J. Young, Storn, montag.

3/22/2004 Gaerik: Sim GM with Gamist Players
In an online group where I'm a player we have this situation. The GM is a pretty coherent Simulationist player. At least that is my observation from playing with him…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gaerik, Ron Edwards, M. J. Young, Noon.

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Subsequent Topics
In GNS Model Discussion

4/3/2004 Jaik: Gamist->Sim Conversion
Reading through the Primal Gamist thread prompted this idea to me: Many new players come to RPGs as gamists (think 10-13-year old boys playing D&D. Yes, this stacks the deck.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jaik, montag, talysman, ethan_greer, M. J. Young, contracycle.

4/5/2004 RDU Neil: Sim story
Setting aside the "Does Sim exist as a CA" conversation for the moment. Question. Does "Sim story" exist? By this I mean... I have seen and played examples of "Sim…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: RDU Neil, Landon Darkwood.

4/5/2004 myripad: What am I playing?
I wasn't sure whether to post this here or in the Actual Play forum, so if I'm the wrong place, please let me know. I'm sure this has been asked…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: myripad, trechriron, Emily Care.

4/6/2004 Henri: Coherent Sim Games?
When I look around at the Forge community games I see a lot of games that are intentionally coherently Naratavist (or Nar-facilitating, etc. etc.). There are also a few that…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Henri, Ron Edwards, Marco, Dev, Seth L. Blumberg, ethan_greer, Landon Darkwood, John Kim, M. J. Young.

4/6/2004 scobie: gns for non-game rules systems
Just a provocative questions at the moment but might the GNS approach apply to other non-creative agenda driven rules systems? I am currently writing a paper on rules theory in…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: scobie, M. J. Young, Andrew Martin.

4/7/2004 timfire: Gamism or System-driven Sim?
Hopefully I can express myself, this is something I've thought about for a while, but have a hard time putting into words. First background: My prefered CA Sim, but I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: timfire, Ron Edwards, RDU Neil.

4/8/2004 Silmenume: The Limiting Action of Sim is Character
In an earlier thread, Player action/reaction to Situation key to CA, I had discussed that CA can only be measured and seen in operation in the address of Situation; everything…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Caldis, RDU Neil, Vishanti, M. J. Young.

4/8/2004 Alan: Acting as Gamist Play
Hi all, Recently I've read two threads, Regarding the nature of roleplaying and Immersive Story Essay. They've triggered several ideas, but here's…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Alan, Gordon C. Landis, contracycle, Seth L. Blumberg, Matt Wilson, pete_darby, Mike Holmes.

4/8/2004 Alan: Does internalization characterize simulationism?
John Kim's essay, Immersive Story Essay, and a quick study of the The Threeway Model FAQ triggered some ideas for me. Can…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Alan, Ron Edwards, RDU Neil, Valamir, Gordon C. Landis, M. J. Young, Walt Freitag, Caldis.

4/8/2004 Storn: My break with GNS
Let me state up front, I think GNS is an interesting attempt to define Player behavior...but WAY too rigid. And too complex. If you cannot tell me a definition in…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Storn, Ron Edwards, Valamir, ethan_greer, Lxndr, coxcomb, Paul Watson, Dev, greyorm, Alan, Matt Snyder, Christopher Kubasik, M. J. Young, Andrew Norris, montag, Paganini, Seth L. Blumberg, BPetroff93, Henri.

4/10/2004 timfire: Since we're on a bit of a Sim kick...
What are sim-oriented games that do not use the typical heavy actor stance, or to put it another way, what are some sim games that break the tradtional mold?
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: timfire, Ron Edwards, Landon Darkwood.

4/11/2004 Seth L. Blumberg: Retrofitting of Narrativist reward systems
[quote="On another thread, M. J. Young"]I'm a stickler on this point. A coherent reward system has two prongs: [list][*]What conduct is rewarded. [*]How the reward is used. [/list:u]If you give…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Seth L. Blumberg, Bankuei, Shreyas Sampat, Ron Edwards, xiombarg.

4/13/2004 cruciel: Conflict Resolution and Gamism
This is a lot of junk all strung together. Hopefully it'll make sense at the end. ***** Once upon a time I started to shift my play more towards conflict…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: cruciel, coxcomb, M. J. Young, ethan_greer, Ron Edwards.

4/13/2004 cruciel: Missing Lobe Shift as Gamist Tell
Wow, that subject title doesn't make any sense, does it? (Everything contained herein subject to the disclaimer that I am not a neurologist, psychiatrist or anything else remotely knowledgeable in…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: cruciel, Eero Tuovinen, montag, beingfrank, Rob Carriere, John Kim, M. J. Young.

4/16/2004 sirogit: Steps to addressing premise?
What do you do in your Narrativist games to encourage the addressing of a specific premise? I'm being abit critical of my own attempts to brainstorm premise-addressing techniques as to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: sirogit, Ben Lehman, BPetroff93.

4/19/2004 trechriron: Pitfalls of Nar Design (point 4)
Point 4 (summary): Sole reliance on deepening and detailing any aspects of exploration are misguided... I am confused on specifically what this is referring to. Is this addressing weather generators,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: trechriron, Jack Spencer Jr, Ron Edwards, John Burdick.

4/19/2004 Ben Lehman: Gamism and Narrativism
I have been thinking, recently, apropos to lumpley's Arranging the Pieces of the Game as to what really defines Narrativism and Gamism, at a base. I think that there…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ben Lehman, Eero Tuovinen, Rob Carriere, greyorm, Doyce, Ron Edwards, beingfrank, M. J. Young, pete_darby, Valamir, contracycle, Walt Freitag, Emily Care, Ian Charvill, cruciel, DannyK.

4/20/2004 M. J. Young: Alignment and Premise in D&D
I feel silly doing this, but over in Ben Lehman's Gamism and Narrativism thread a side issue emerged regarding whether D&D had within it the possibility of addressing premise…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: M. J. Young, Ben Lehman, NN, contracycle, BPetroff93, Noon, myripad.

4/20/2004 Cemendur: The GNS of Fishing
[quote="Gaerik"]It's like trying to discuss "sports" without defining what a sport is. Some people consider fishing and churling (I think that is how you spell that) to be sports but…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Cemendur, Gaerik, Blankshield, M. J. Young, Doyce, Ron Edwards.

4/21/2004 Gaerik: A Plentiful Plethora of Panoramic Premise
Okay, so my title for this topic is a little ostentatious. Sorry. My questions for the Narrativist experts out there multitudinous but they all revolve around having multiple premises in…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gaerik, BPetroff93, Ron Edwards, Eero Tuovinen, GreatWolf, pete_darby, Matt Wilson, M. J. Young.

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