The Forge Archives

Hi,

We have been working on an RPG system for 2 years and we are finally getting ready to publish.  I wish I had found this site sooner :(

Can I ask if anyone would look over the base rules and let me know your opinions?  We have approached the system is a tiered way.  There are simple rules that resolve actions via 2 roll types.
The difference is that players can use either the advanced rules or base rules in the same game and it does not affect gameplay.  It means we can keep the old AD&D gamers happy and the more narrative players in the same session.

We have a demo scenario (Ghosts of wreckers cove) that outlines the basic rules, so please download a copy and let me have it **Blocks critisism attack, swish!**.
We also have a character generator that gives you an idea of the basic characteristics each race starts with, including their race skills.

http://www.redravenrpg.com/downloads/demoscenario.zip

Please let me know what you think

FruitBatInShades

The ldownloads don't appear to be working

Worked fine for me.

Will look at it in the morning.

Simon

Works here also

Works now.

My apologies guys, I didn't zip the character sheets up in the file.  Sorry I've done it now

**scuttles under rock**

I've had a brief glance through the rules, they seem mostly sane, but one thing jumps out at me:

The Rule Of One - Sorry? You're chance to fumble increases with skill - are you sure? In fact with as few as 4 dice, you have an over 50% chance to fumble. I haven't done the numbers but I suspect the fumble effect is more important than the increase in average, and that higher skills are actually, therefore, detrimental.

Er, I read the rules wrong, sorry - ignore my last post.

I've looked at the rules, not the scenario. The scenario seems not to contain the four player characters it promises - this makes it difficult to assess.

Comments:

The dice system has a potential for a significant number of re-rolls, most of which seem to be uneeded given the example difficulty levels (a 10 would succeed without any re-roll). With a skill of 4: 70% of rolls would involve at least one re-roll, with a skill of 3: 50%.

The combat system offers multiple chances to avoid being hit: defending, dodging and shield block - this could lead to long handling times, and hits being rare events. Combined with a damage reduction system (in which it's not clear where the base damage comes from), I suspect this will lead to long, and rather dull fights.

There is no mention of what damage is done to.

The combat rules imply a round system, but there is no description of how this works, or how often 'initiative' is rolled.

There are spells in the rules, but no spell-casting rules.

Overall there seems little in the rules I would find particularly interesting - although without character creation rules, spell-casting rules and a structure to how skills are going to work it's hard to tell. This is not to say they're bad rules - just that they don't seem to have anything about them that really sets them apart from any other rule set.

My biggest worry for the rules is handling time, particularly in combat.

Here is the percentage chance of rolling on or above the amount:-

+-----------------------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Chance of X or higher | 1d10 | 2d10 | 3d10 | 4d10 | 5d10 |
+-----------------------+------+------+------+------+------+
| 1                     | 100  | 100  | 100  | 100  | 100  |
| 2                     | 90   | 99   | 99.9 | 99.99| 99.99|
| 3                     | 80   | 96   | 99.2 | 99.84| 99.96|
| 4                     | 70   | 91   | 97.3 | 99.19| 99.75|
| 5                     | 60   | 84   | 93.6 | 97.44| 98.97|
| 6                     | 50   | 75   | 87.5 | 93.75| 96.87|
| 7                     | 40   | 64   | 78.4 | 87.04| 92.22|
| 8                     | 30   | 51   | 65.7 | 75.99| 83.19|
| 9                     | 20   | 36   | 48.8 | 59.04| 67.23|
| 10                    | 10   | 19   | 27.1 | 34.39| 40.95|
|Chance of Fumble       | 10   | 1    | 0.1  | 0.01 | 0.001|
+-----------------------+------+------+------+------+------+


I didn't do the maths by the way :-) and yes, people do still fumble occaisonaly with 4 dice, seriously unlucky but it's happened twice.

Yeah, your fumble rules are fine - I just read them wrong first time.

Those numbers look right - my % chances for re-rolls above are wrong. Still that's quite a lot of re-rolls with higher skills.

Quote from: Jack AidleyThe dice system has a potential for a significant number of re-rolls, most of which seem to be uneeded given the example difficulty levels (a 10 would succeed without any re-roll). With a skill of 4: 70% of rolls would involve at least one re-roll, with a skill of 3: 50%.

The maths are in a post above, 10's do not happen that often until you get to 3 or 4 dice.

Quote from: Jack AidleyThe combat system offers multiple chances to avoid being hit: defending, dodging and shield block - this could lead to long handling times, and hits being rare events. Combined with a damage reduction system (in which it's not clear where the base damage comes from), I suspect this will lead to long, and rather dull fights.

Only 1 defence can used in a round.  You are correct it needs more explaining and we haven't explained the rounds at all **Slaps forehead**

Quote from: Jack AidleyThere is no mention of what damage is done to.

Correct again :(  You lose Hit points

Quote from: Jack AidleyThere are spells in the rules, but no spell-casting rules.

There are no rules to magic casting, each spell is explained, most are line of sight.  We didn't want to make the rules heavy so all magic is down to the GM's interpretation and the basic description.  We are trying to avoid a D&D style addiction to the rules.
The rounds work out pretty quickly in our experience, less time than D&D anyway (not that, thats hard).  Again skills are at the GM's Players discretion.  It all comes down to the difficulty table, which I will explain further **embaressed**.

The re-rolls add a bit of excitement to the game.  When were playing we always get 'Hah, i rolled a 10' and a big grin. Plus when dealing with higher level campaigns, you need those re-rolls.  An NPC with a skill of 5 has as good a chance of rolling 26 on a skill as you do.

I always hated gaming systems that you had to deal with physics in.  Why get a calculator out and times the mass of the player, by their strength to see if they jump a gap?

The GM decides what the difficulty is, so a character with a prowess of 8 trying to jump a 3ft gap, wouldn't even be rolled.  The same character trying to jump a 10ft gap is a different story.

Player:  I want to jump the gap.
GM: It's 10ft you know? (difficulty 15, guestimate)
Player: Ok, I'm gong to take a running jump
GM: Ok (Running -2 from the difficulty) you need to roll 13 on your prowess to suceed.

It allows for quick play and doesn't get bogged down with rules.  The same idea is used on all actions, spells, physics, skills.  Most of our Test GM's came from AD&D and vampire and all of them didn't like the idea to begin with.  After playing for a while they all really like it, it was just a culture shock to start with.

Only skills use multiple d10's.  Attribute related rolls are always done with 1d10.  This means as a player improves they don't need to roll for simple things anymore.  A character with a prowess of 13 would only need to roll for that jump if the gm was mean and wanted a chance of a fumble.

Calculating difficulty ratings.
The first thing that should be considered when setting a basic difficulty rating is the plausibility of the action. Should a character wish to open an unlocked door and walk down a flight of stairs then no difficulty rating is really needed, as the action is both simple and common. However should a character wish to break down the door and then jump down the
stairs then that is a little more difficult.
Here are a few sample actions and their possible difficulty ratings.

Breaking down a door – this action should be rolled against the characters strength attribute, with the difficulty set bearing in mind the strength and structure of the door. A rotten door hanging of its hinges would have a rough difficulty rating of (7) where as a solid oak door
reinforced with iron would have a rough difficulty rating of (18).

Jumping a crevice – this action should be rolled against the characters prowess attribute or an athletics skill, with the difficulty set bearing in mind the size of the gap. A small fissure of no more than a couple of feet wide would have a rough difficulty rating of (10) where as a
fifteen foot gap would have a rough difficulty rating of (20).

Cheating during a game of cards – this action should be rolled against the characters wits attribute. A simple single card swap playing against children would have a rough difficulty rating of (7), whereas the same card swap against a group of veteran gamblers would have a
rough difficulty rating of (15).

Fooling a senile old lady into taking out an overpriced insurance policy – this action should be rolled against the characters charisma attribute. A charismatic character with a large amount of false paperwork may have a rough difficulty rating of (10) where as a man dressed in rags
and stinking of cheap ale could have a difficulty rating of (25).

Noticing a pickpocket in a tavern – this action should be rolled against the characters awareness attribute. Again the difficulty rating should be reflected in the skill of the pickpocket, the amount of patrons within the tavern and the characters current state of inebriation.

Have a think about this one and try and work out a difficulty rating for your self.

FBIS (could we have a name, your screen name is just too much),

Welcome to The Forge.

In order that we be able to help you more, it helps us to get a sense of your experience. I mean, from what you've got above, I can tell that you've played D&D of some sort. What other systems are you familiar with?

Just to try to be open about it, I'm also trying to ascertain if you've got a level of knowledge about games that gives you a sense of what's available out there. Not that it's not impossible that you're not a very widely read and played gamer, but statements like what you have about how your resolution system works makes it sound pretty standard in many ways. This is a standard signal to us that you might not yet have the breadth that, I for one, think is requisite to create a really good game.

What I'm tiptoeing around are thoughts less gently expressed in my thread: Mike's Standard Rant #1: Designers Know Your Hobby!

Do not take offense. Especially if you actually are rather experienced, and I've targeted you accidentally. Even if you aren't that widely experienced there is help that we can give you. But, again, ascertaining your level of knowledge will really help us here to help you.

Mike