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Okay, now I'm into "realistic" games. Sim or whatever, I want m disbelief to be suspended. That's easier on me for some things than for others. TROS, for example, put a lot of attention on realistic swordplay, becuase I need that realism to suspend disbelief.

Last night we ran Shadowrun for about an hour and a half. We just felt like blowing stuff up and it seemed like the best outlet for that. So far, it is. I'm looking for a a game that allows me and mine to blow stuff up bigger better faster louder and grittier than Shadowrun. Something that's short-length (like most indie rpgs), easy to pick up and play, and that's messy. I want John Woo and other high-end high-octane action. That's the "realism" that I'm shooting for here.

I'm looking for suggestions. What I'm not looking for is:
InSpectres. We play this semi-regularly and it's wonderful (both I and my players really really love it), but it's not what I'm looking for.
Something long with a big setting or one that's crucial to the gameplay.
A uber-simple generic system.

I am looking for a dedicated violence with big guns and cars and explosions game. Any ideas?

Jake

Jake,

It sounds like you're describing Extreme Vengeance.

It weighs in on the rules-light side, and it's often hailed as one of the uber-Narrativist systems out there, but it is the action movie rpg if ever there was one.  

It's relatively easy to learn, and would be good for short campaign type stuff.

If you can find it you should pick it up, even if you don't end up playing it.

- Scott

Quote from: Jake NorwoodI am looking for a dedicated violence with big guns and cars and explosions game. Any ideas?

Well, one that springs immediately to mind is Macho Women with Guns from BTRC.

FUZION is quite good at blowing things up, and is available as a fairly small PDF.

BESM, and it's HKAT incarnation are also good at blowing things up, although they may be a bit large for your purposes. There is a free quickstart version of BESM available, however. It has all the rules, but the attribute descriptions have been removed and replaced by a straight list. (Trust me... in BESM this is significant. 95% of the main book consists of attribute descriptions.)

For indie games you might try:

Heavy Ordnance - an absolutely hillarious game by Chris Blankley in which you play pre-pubescent kids who are the only survivors of a massive demon incursion... and who happen to attend gradeschool next door to an abandoned National Guard munitions stockpile. IMO, this is probably your best bet. The style and art are bang on, the layout and presentation are decent. It's available for download in a variety of formats, including a nice PDF. http://www.blankley.net/hvyord.html

There are several action-oriented D6 variants out there, like Matrix D6 and Appleseed D6. Matrix D6 is more about running the matrix, but it does have some destructive archetypes, and rules for Jon Woo style guns. Matrix D6 is good, because it uses D6 Legend, rather than D6 Classic. Matrix D6 can be found here: http://thematrixfreerpg.tripod.com/ And of course, if you want to blow things up with D6, you gotta check out Starcraft D6 - the roleplaying game of real time strategy computer wargames! :) http://starcraftd6.tripod.com/

Mutant Bikers of the Atomic Wasteland - A FUDGE variant where you play a member of a post-apocalyptic biker gang who - you guessed it - goes around blowing things up. Also quite funny. http://www.jpbs.homechoice.co.uk/mbaw/mbaw.htm

The Heritage storytelling system (mostly freeform) has an action movie style suppliment: http://www.sexundgewalt.de.vu/

Of course, you can't forget Jared's OctaNe, which is a sort of Mad Max on steriods. http://www.memento-mori.com/octane/rules.html

Anyway, I hope you find something you're looking for out of there. If you ever want to blow stuff up on IRC, head over to #indieRPGs on Magicstar some monday and I'll be happy to play just about any one of them. :)

As far as I know Feng Shui is exactly what you are looking for.  Though maybe Unknown Armies might be good too.  For both check out http://www.atlas-games.com/.  To be honest though I am sure you could do some serious action with Sorcerer.

Oh yeah and Two Page Action Movie might be good too (check in the Library).

-Shane

I have to second that 2 Page Action Movie plug.  That game rocks!

Chris

Metal Opera satisfies big explosions and massive action. It's highly author/director-stanced. The whole thing is about starting out wimpy and climbing up to end with the grandest ending possible.

You can replace the Metal theme with an HK Action theme by rewriting the names of the stats. And changing Axe to Piece.

Quote from: Buddha NatureTo be honest though I am sure you could do some serious action with Sorcerer.

I am absolutely certain that you can. Saturday night I ran a quick little combat set piece with my regular group, using the Sorcerer rules. It was brilliant.  A friend of mine who's a huge wargamer and likes the tactical side of most rulesets really showed how to maximize the the effectiveness of Sorcerer's system.  Armed with a chamber pot on a rope, he went on one of the most exciting violence sprees that I've ever seen in a game.  His companions who were rescuing him were only partially as effective (although absolutely essential to his task of escaping his captors).

Thanks a ton for all those suggestions! OctaNe had occured to me, but I was wondering if I should wait for the full version. I'll check out the others asap.

Jake

Quote from: Jake NorwoodThanks a ton for all those suggestions! OctaNe had occured to me, but I was wondering if I should wait for the full version. I'll check out the others asap.

I gotta warn you that the 1st edition (online version) is not a good indicator of what the newer version is like (I'll be taking it down this week to work on the new octaNe site).

Also, if you're looking for game-heavy rules, premium uNleaded will disappoint you in that area. It's more similar to InSpectres than to (say) Shadowrun.

I'd say that Feng Shui is exactly what you're looking for here. FUZION is too complicated and Unknown Armies is intended to be grittily realistic. BESM is okay if you like anime, but if you like anime then you're beyond my help anyway.

Quote from: Jared A. Sorensen
I gotta warn you that the 1st edition (online version) is not a good indicator of what the newer version is like (I'll be taking it down this week to work on the new octaNe site).

Also, if you're looking for game-heavy rules, premium uNleaded will disappoint you in that area. It's more similar to InSpectres than to (say) Shadowrun.

Looking forward too it nonetheless. I'm actually looking for rules-moderate to rules-light here, so I'll definitely check out OctaNe. And yeah, I'll buy it, $10 or whatever! ;-)

Jake

Jake,

If you can forgive my shameless self promotion, might I suggest picking up a copy of Dreamwalker: Roleplaying in the Land of Dreams.  It sounds just like what you are looking for---easy to learn rules, quick chargen, no true metaplot and since the players are "real" they have a vast amount of power over the inhabitants of the dream.  

As for blowing stuff up,  since the "adventures" are set within dreams you can take your picking of settings and locales---shadowrunesque, sci-fi, futuristic, post holocaust, medieval and conventional warfare are all possible as we have rules for weapons and vehicles and tips for customizing them to the setting.  

There is a review http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_6581.html> here.  The reviewer felt the game was great for quick, one shot games even going so far as to call it the "king of the one-pops"---which incidentally had me somewhat nettled at first as I always envisioned Dreamwalker as having more depth and being more suited for prolonged campaign play.  Still, I could see he had a point as the game was designed to be tailored to different playing styles.  :)

Anyway, if you (or anyone else here) purchases the game, I would really like to hear some details on how the sessions go, just to get an idea of how others feel the game fits into the GNS model.

You can check out our http://dreamwalkerrpg.home.att.net> website or buy the game at http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=53NJ65233P&isbn=1890305367>Barnes and Noble or at http://www.booksamillion.com/ncom/books?id=2237027924901&pid=1890305367> Books A'Million.

My apologies about the plug, but I really felt it was appropriate.  

Thanks,

Pete

Jake,

I'd second many of the suggestions so far. OTOH, few of them get high scores for really detailed or gritty action, like TROS would. The problem is that you already have the best game on the market for that, AFAICT (it's just not tailored to modern action). I think that most games are going to dissapoint you a bit, therefore.

You've probably seen a lot of the entries that would count. Palladium's system for example, is detailed, gritty, and can do MEGA action. But it also largely blows (same goes for a slew of games like Battleords of the 23rd Century). GURPS and Hero System (and it's cousin FUZION) can be made to do what you want, but have their own problems, and fail your dedication test. BESM is more dedicated to violence, but also slightly less well designed (OK, it's a lopsided pile of holes).

2PAM, HKAT (original), and Extreme Vengeance are all very dedicated, but do not get into the gritty detail. They'll likely snap your disbelief suspenders. Feng Shui may come closest, and you can just ignore most of the setting if you like. Still, not too detailed.

See the problem? Games are either dedicated to wild violence and do it in a non-detailed way (so as to allow for the maximum wildness), or they are detailed, but less dedicated. I think that this follows the notion that action movies are not very realistic. Which doesn't mean that you can't have detail, it just suggests to those making the games that such detail isn't interesting, I think.

I could really get into a game like you're describing, I just don't think it exists. I'd either tailor one of the generic systems and go from there, or even better, If I were you, I'd alter TROS to do what you want. Probably wouldn't take too much.

Mike

Hey Mike, I seem to have gotten a different idea of what Jake is looking for from what you have. I was under the impression that what he's looking for is *not* a system heavy game. The impression I got is that he's looking for a relatively simple game devoted to the action genre, but not to any one particular setting. Sounds like FUZION might be exactly what he wants.

Jake, maybe you could clarify a bit what you're looking for. I'm getting interested here, because I see a potential niche to be filled if Mike is correct. So, what role do you want the system fo fill exactly? You've already said that you don't particularly want a setting. So what do you have in mind? How would you like a typical Blow Things Up session to go?

Quote from: PaganiniHey Mike, I seem to have gotten a different idea of what Jake is looking for from what you have. I was under the impression that what he's looking for is *not* a system heavy game. The impression I got is that he's looking for a relatively simple game devoted to the action genre, but not to any one particular setting.

I never said Heavy. In fact I specifically avoided that term. By using Detailed, I meant to imply a game that goes into some serious discussion of things violence related. More data for explosives, more on how to handle guns. Less on extraneous stuff. But just enough system to do it well, as always. A game like FUZION has a simple weapons list and basic rules for explosives, but otherwise does not help you a lot with the sort of violence Jake indicated. Hero System would be much more detailed (tho, yes, a bit heavier).

Worse, Extreme Vengance, for example, even has a statement where it says that it's not at all interested in differing kinds of guns. 2PAM just has a guns stat, and it matters not a whit what you carry. These are the sorts of details that may be interesting to Jake. OTOH, maybe not.

Jake, you specifically said, Light to Medium on heaviness. Nathan's right, if you could give us an idea of what systems you've played that would be in this range, or bracket it for us that would help us pin that down. And what level of simulation is necessary. Does it matter to you if the character is carrying a 9mm as opposed to a .45? .38 snub vs. .357 Magnum? .22 target vs. .50 Desert Eagle? Pen knife vs. Dragon ATM? The last case would be the same effectiveness in EV, just roll Guts. Are you interested in this sort of detail at all, or can you do without?

BTW, what you'd probably call heavy Nathan, I'd call light. Like GURPS. I see GURPS as light, personally, maybe medium from some perspectives. Yes, Palladium is heavy, but I dismissed that one right off the bat. I was trying to skew my response to TROS, which one would assume is a level that is satisfying to Jake.

Mike