TRoS Middel Earth: Elves as player characters

[bergh]

HI

Im making races for my TRoS middle earth campaign, and i wish that elves a simply more Tolkien. so i have made this up:


Silvan or Wood Elves - Race Priority: A
+2 Per, +1 Soc, +1 Ag, +1 Wit, +2 skill profiencies, Woodsman/Ranger skill packet at 9

Hobbits or Halflings - Race priority: F
-2 ST, -2 TO, + 1 Per, +1 Social, Flaw: Small (-1 weapon length)
       
DWARF.
Character creation: B Priority
Lifespan: average 230, old 250. A few Dwarves reach 300.
Height: Male average 4' 9" (4'5"-5'2"), Female 4' 5" (4'2"-4'9")
Weight: Average140lbs-150lbs
Stats: +2 TO (or +1TO,+1 ST), +1 EN, +1 WP, -1 Soc, -1 AG, -2 MOVE (Minimum 4).
Gifts: Night Vision: 30 yards
Flaw:  Little (-1 on weapon length).
Skills: Automatic Craft skill at SR 6

what do you think? to over powered/under powered?

[Tash]

Hobbits seem a bit underpowered.  They are pretty resiliant, resourceful creatures despite their size.  According to the descriptions in the various books they should get a bonus to the camoflauge and move silently skill, probably a bonus to bow proficiency, and better agility.  I would also make them a high priority than F.

Also you probably want to consider state from Duendain, or humans of the pure line of Neumenor.

[kenjib]

probably a bonus to bow proficiency

I believe that they were good at throwing (as per Bilbo and the spiders), rather than archery.

I think your elves might be a bit underpowered.  I think that they were very much superior to humans in pretty much every way.  The same would go for numenoreans/dundain but to a lesser degree.

You might also have to consider how to handle magic.  I think it's fair to make Noldor always gifted and the others optionally.  The numenoreans/dunedain could perhaps have two categories for gifted and ungifted.  That should probably be it though.

I would probably end up with priorities something like:

A - Elf (Noldor), gifted
B - Elf (Telari or Avari), gifted or Numenorean/Dunedain, gifted
C - Elf (Telari or Avari), ungifted or Numenorean/Dunedain, ungifted
D - Dwarf
E - Human or Hobbit
F - Human or Hobbit

If I wanted to make Beornings available too, I'd probably put them at B or C.  They would be ungifted but would have some unique abilities of shapeshifting.  Maybe I'd put them at B just to make them less common.

[Tash]

Both:  "They shot well with the bow, for they were keen-eyed and sure at the mark.  Not only with bows and arrows.  If any Hobbit stooped for a stone, it was well to get quickly under cover, as all trespassing beast knew very well."

From the prologue to Fellowship, pg 15 of the 3 volume collectors edition hardcover.

The proluge is also where it states that they are skilled in "the art of disappearing swiftly and silently...and this art they have developed until to men it may seem magical."

So I'd give they a basic proficency with bows and thrown weapons at 3 and Camoflage/Move Silently at 6 or 7 (with possibly a bonus against "Big people") probably.

Edit: A question: are there any magic using humans besides the Wizards (Wizards being kinda-sorta human even though they were sent to Middle Earth by the Valar)?

[bergh]

Hobbits have +AG....? are they not small and fat ?

I very confused on how to make the Hobbit STrength and TOughness. maybe they should only have -1 TO and -2 ST, maybe with a fixed maximum or something.

thanks for the  very good priority sheet. i will use it as a guide

but the idea is that is should be a costfull choise to be an elf or Dwarf, so i still think i will stick the Dwarf at B and elf at A.
But should the elf really be buffed more up?, maybe a +1 Wit more? how do you think he should be better?

How much better are a Dunedain vs a normal human? share your LoTR knowledge!

[Irmo]

How much better are a Dunedain vs a normal human? share your LoTR knowledge!

Depends on how pure the Numenorean blood runs in them, and whether they are of the royal line (which has elvish blood) or not.

Personally, I'd be against any Dunedain not from the royal line having the gift for magic. I'd suggest creating the following options:

An option for necromancy: Acquiring the use of magic by tapping the spirits of the dead OR the living. A gift/flaw combination that invariably makes for an evil character.

Possibly some types of runic lore or superhuman craftsmanship to allow Numenoreans and Dwarves to make items of unearthly quasi-magical quality.

[Tash]

Dunedain vs. normal human:  these are the descendents of the human kings of Numenor, who are actually descended from Elrond's brother Elros (Forgive me if I got the name wrong, without the Silmarilion near me I can't remember it precisely).  They live much longer than regular humans (Aragorn dies at 192, the kings of old lived as long as 300 years, and are able to chose the moment of their death rather than waste into infirmity).  They are different enough from normal humans as to be an almost different race entirely.  I would place them equal to all elves save the Noldor, and only slightly less powerful that them.  Perhaps +2 ST, +2TO, +1 EN, AG, and MA (they are much wiser than normal humans), 2 proficencies, and an additional skill packet of their chosing at 9 (they can learn anything they wish quite easily).  They however are not gifted, so I would make their priority B with A as an option if the player wishes to play a Gifted member of the race, and move dwarves to C (Dwarves are an "accidental" race in Middle Earth, they were created without permission by one of the Valar, whereas the Elves and Men were planned by Iluvatar at the begining of time).

Also, regarding your elves.  You should probably make an "Elf" skill packet that includes skills like crafting and music, as well as some woodsman skills, as all Elves are wonderously talented in all things artistic (it was actually Elves who taught the Dwarves of old how to work metal and stone, but the dwarves quickly surpassed them in technique and knowledge).  They should all start with the minor "Beauty of Ages" gift, as all Elves are beautiful creatures who closly follow the Valar in image.  Exceptionally beautiful elves (like Arawen and Luthien) are the most attractive creatures to walk Middle Earth since the eldar days.

That's about all I can think of off the top of my head, I'm re-reading the Silmarillion now but can't actually pull any mroe details out without going to get it (like exactly which of the Valar created the Dwarves, I think it was Aule but I'm not sure) I'm sure the other Tolkien experts here can add more.

[bergh]

There arent any dunedain "real" kingdoms anymore are there?
Most of the dunedain lives by them self like Aragon when he is Streider?

I thunk i will make them an A priority, im not fancying all that much magic.

[Irmo]

There arent any dunedain "real" kingdoms anymore are there?
Most of the dunedain lives by them self like Aragon when he is Streider?

I thunk i will make them an A priority, im not fancying all that much magic.

No, Aragorn is an example of the NORTHERN Dunedain, but Gondor's nobility is Dunedain, too, though more common blood has intermarried there quite frequently.

[Tash]

The reason Aragorn is unique is that his is descended from the pure blood of Numenor.  As far as I am aware he is the only person left in middle earth who can make such a claim (though his descendents arguably could, Arawen being his cousin, technically).

[kenjib]

Both:  "They shot well with the bow, for they were keen-eyed and sure at the mark.  Not only with bows and arrows.  If any Hobbit stooped for a stone, it was well to get quickly under cover, as all trespassing beast knew very well."

Hey cool, thanks for the info.  I like your suggestions.  I'd also probably give them a +1 boost in endurance, health, and will - or something similar.  They were really resilient little guys.  Also, did anyone already mention the "little" flaw?

Edit: A question: are there any magic using humans besides the Wizards (Wizards being kinda-sorta human even though they were sent to Middle Earth by the Valar)?

Here is an essay on magic and middle-earth.  I'm not sure how accurate it is overall but it seems pretty good.

http://mevault.ign.com/features/editorials/understandingmagic.shtml

Here's the relevant part:

And yet sorcery is practiced by Men throughout Middle-earth: the nine Men who accepted Rings of Power from Sauron (only three of whom were Numenoreans) "became mighty in their day, kings, sorcerors, and warriors of old" before they finally succumbed to the Rings and faded; the hill-men who seized control of Rhudaur (or the evil Men the Witch-king sent to replace them) appear to have practiced sorcery; and the Mouth of Sauron was a sorceror (although he was a Numenorean).

The sorcery of Men must be diverse. Tolkien speaks of Men attempting to communicate with Elvish spirits. When the Elves faded their bodies vanished. Those who were so enamored of Middle-earth they would rather fade than sail over Sea were likely to become "haunts", spirits dwelling in or near a favorite place. If discovered by Men they might respond to certain sorcerous stimuli, but they were perilous for Men to deal with. The spirits might seek to occupy the bodies of the Men and eject the native spirits, which were weaker by nature or youthfulness. Such acts might not be so much derived of malice as of desperation. Elves were as desperate to live in Middle-earth as Men, but they like Men had a doom which limited their time in Biological Life.

Other sorceries Men might practice included the control of animals. Beruthiel, wife of Tarannon Falastur, was originally a Black Numenorean princess. She learned the arts of sorcery from her people and practiced them in Gondor. Her cats were legendary for their devotion to their mistress and her uses of them to spy upon the people of the realm. Tarannon lived in a great house by the Sea at Pelargir, but Beruthiel preferred to live in a house on the great bridge of Osgiliath. She filled the garden with twisted and mis-shapen trees and plants, and she so terrorized the Dunedain that Tarannon was eventually forced to remove her forcibly and send her into exile. She was last seen sailing alone on a ship southwards past Umbar, accompanied only by her cats, one at the prow and one at the stern.

[Irmo]

I'd be careful citing Martinez blindly,the guy is a minefield.

Here's some of Tolkien's own ideas on the issue of magic:

http://www.users.cts.com/king/e/erikt/tolkien/lttr155.htm

[Tash]

I'd have go with Irmo on this as well, I don't know anything about the author of that article, but I have read a fair bit of both Toliken's actual literature as well as his biogrophy and many notes, excerpts etc.  I'm wracking my brain right now for a single example of a character in any of Tolkien's work actually "casting" a spell, and I'm not finding one.  Magic in middle earth, to the best I can determine, seems almost entirely focused on the creation or use of powerful items (the rings of power, the Silmarils, etc.).  Even the wizards seem dependent on items (recall that once Saurman's staff is broken he becomes powerless, magically speaking anyway).

Then there are the various references to songs with magical results.  But that gets even more complicated.

[Irmo]

I'd have go with Irmo on this as well, I don't know anything about the author of that article, but I have read a fair bit of both Toliken's actual literature as well as his biogrophy and many notes, excerpts etc.  I'm wracking my brain right now for a single example of a character in any of Tolkien's work actually "casting" a spell, and I'm not finding one.  Magic in middle earth, to the best I can determine, seems almost entirely focused on the creation or use of powerful items (the rings of power, the Silmarils, etc.).  Even the wizards seem dependent on items (recall that once Saurman's staff is broken he becomes powerless, magically speaking anyway).

Then there are the various references to songs with magical results.  But that gets even more complicated.

Actually, there are instances of characters using a spell. Gandal does so, when summoning fire, at least twice: Once on Caradhras, and once when fending off the wargs. However, what those spells are is really invocations of the effect that eventually happens. In what way such focusing through phrasing is actually needed is unclear, since Gandalf speaks of the Balrog's "counter spell", and we never hear the Balrog speak. In any case, I'd say such spells are means to focus a power that is innate to the being using it in order to achieve a specific effect.

However, magic goes beyond the creation of items, I believe. The mouth of Sauron has forgotten his own name, and I think it is not at all unlikely that he used necromancy to prolong his life beyond what is natural in order to explain the fact that no one remembers his name.

[Tash]

I'd assumed in all those cases that some kind of powerful item was used.  Gandalf actually poseses one of the rings of power (the 3rd Elven ring, given to him by Cidran the Shipwright when he arived in Middle Earth) and this, combined with his Wizard staff I'd always belived were the sources of his magic.  His true ability and power lies in his great wisdom and knowledge of how to make use of such unearthly forces.  Recall that in actual combat he relies entirely on Glamdring (which is itself magical, and once belonged to the King of Gondolin, Turgon), with great effect.
As for the mouth of Sauron I assumed he was simply given something like the one ring as a reward/leash by his master, and that acounted for his extended life.  Either that or he was undead, like the Wringwraiths, but still corporeal(Sauron having been refered to as a necromancer, stands to reason that he could have raised a fallen human as a servant.  Actually I read a rather good piece of fanfic once that was based on the premise that TMoS was actually Isildur).  Also note that Sauron's magic is by no means normal, he is a creation of, and former servant to, Melkor, aka Morgoth, the great enemy of the Valar (essentially the Satan character of Middle Earth, he is the second greatest, after Manwe, of all the Valar, but fell to darkness because of pride and his lust to dominate all things).  Sauron is described as equal to him in both power and cruelty.

Those are just my interpretations though.

One other example of "Magic" in Middle Earth are the songs of the Valinor and Elves (especially the Noldor) which are described in many places as accomplishing magical feats (such as imparting the memory and knowledge of Valinor, and much fo theknowledge of the Noldor, to the first men as they slept).