TRoS Middel Earth: Elves as player characters

[MonkeyWrench]

Well their forums can be found at either www.burningwheel.org or right here at the Forge on the indie game forums.

From what I can tell Grief is a mechanic given to elves. Certain actions or events increase an elf's Grief and once it hits a certain number they either "pass on" or journey to the West.  I myself haven't tried it out in play but I've heard great things about it from those who have.  Coupled with the compulsory Destiny SA I would say that you can nail Tolkien elves very well in TRoS and open up some intense roleplaying chances as well.

[bergh]

what action or events are we talking about?

[Valamir]

Being forced to kill, watching a friend die, having a place of pristine beauty destroyed etc.

When grief occurs you can sing a lament and thus ease some of the grief (take fewer points) which is a wonderful mechanic to capture all of those annoying elf songs Tolkien scattered throughout the books

[bergh]

how would you put this into conjunction with SA's?

[MonkeyWrench]

I'd make it it's own seperate stat personally. One unique to elves.  Combine WP and HT or EN and there is the threshold for an elf's Grief.  It uses both mental and physical stats to emulate both the heart-ache suffered and the physical torment of being an elf. You'd need to come up with a mechanic for Songs of Lament though.

[Irmo]

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but Bergh have you considered looking at the Burning Wheel mechanics for elven Grief?  I haven't had a chance to read the whole set yet, but I've been told that the system models Tolkien Elves better than anything else out there.

I've heard about it, but have so far failed to see how it is supposed to relate to Tolkien's Elves.

[Tash]

Well Tolkien's elves do kinda whine a lot :)

[MonkeyWrench]

I've heard about it, but have so far failed to see how it is supposed to relate to Tolkien's Elves

Because Tolkien elves lament the loss of their culture and their way of life.  Because everything about the elves is about preservation and when that changes they feel it.  They're tied into Middle Earth more than any other race and there should be a mechanic to emulate that, hence Grief.

[bergh]

MOnkey'wrench, i like the Grief idea thing....think i will think about it, and how i can use it

[bergh]

SO far this is what the elves in my system gets:
And its ofcourse a A priority, but please don't judge them after the "normal" TRoS races. i have my own dwarf rules, see my TRoS page.

ELVES
Sindar – Grey Elves: +2 Ag, +2 Per, +1 Soc, +1 En, +1 WP.

Silvan - Wood Elves. +2 Per, +2 Ag, +1 Wits. +1 WP. Woodsman/Ranger skill packet at 9

Non Genre specific.

Wild/Barbarian Elf.
+2 Per, +1 Ag, +2 Wit, -1 social, +1 En, +1 WP. Woodman/ranger skill packet at 9.


anyway now i need to have this Grief SA or something build in, and i like the "culture destroyed" thing, but i think i better point my elves in a "non-tolkien" way, so that i can use these elves rules in somewhat "changed Middle Earth" setting, where elves not are leaving as fast as they can.

Maybe each elf should have something *special* he cares about, and generaly this is what controls his life and what he do! this sound ALOT like normal SA, yes it is!, but for the elf it should be ENHANCED in effect.
This should be somehow work as a little "balance" to there many stat bonuses, more like an roleplayed "flaw" then anything else.

My problem is now that how i will implant that elves just have a total other view of life, so that there *special* should really domminate there "roleplay".? hope you understand what i mean?

[Irmo]

I've heard about it, but have so far failed to see how it is supposed to relate to Tolkien's Elves

Because Tolkien elves lament the loss of their culture and their way of life.  Because everything about the elves is about preservation and when that changes they feel it.  They're tied into Middle Earth more than any other race and there should be a mechanic to emulate that, hence Grief.

That is something specific to the end of the days of the elves in Middle-Earth. It is not specific to the Elves as a people. You would barely find it in the first or most of the second age. And they're not tied into Middle-Earth, they're tied to the world as a whole.

Quite the contrary to lamenting change, in the Second Age, the elves strove to do something about it. Hence the Rings of Power.

Thus, any sorrow should be specific to the individual character. I don't see why a mechanic needs to be present to emulate the basic emotions of a character any more that we roll die to see if a character falls in love. Especially with a people of such strength of spirit as the elves.

[MonkeyWrench]

Irmo-

I guess it just comes down to different interpretations.  I was always under the impression that the rings of power, specifically the ones created by Elves for Elves, were to be used to preserve their culture and way of life - to keep things from changing as it were.


In Burning Wheel the mechanic isn't used to dictate emotion, but rather used to emulate the weight of an uncaring world on a people that not only live forever but are also directly invested in that world.  On the surface immortality may look like nice, but when you have to watch everything change around you while you remain constant I can see how that could get someone down.

[Irmo]

Irmo-

I guess it just comes down to different interpretations.  I was always under the impression that the rings of power, specifically the ones created by Elves for Elves, were to be used to preserve their culture and way of life - to keep things from changing as it were.

In other words, rather than lamenting change, they did something about it: They prevented it, at least for small sanctuaries.

[MonkeyWrench]

Sorry that last paragraph on my previous post was meant to be an entirely new one.


I'm not going to argue about it. All I know is that a great number of people feel that the Grief mechanic in Burning Wheel helps to create the right 'mood' for Tolkien Elves and since Bergh was looking for suggestions on how to capture that mood or feel I figured he'd like to know.

[bergh]

Yes thanks monkeyWrench, it has been very helpfull, it have given me a whole new set of idea.!