Fun Size: The Indie RPG Halloween Anthology

[philreed]

[Jonathan Walton]

Hey Phil.  Working on the vs. Monsters Anthology was great, and I'd love to be involved in this project, but I have a few questions.

1. It sounds like you're asking contributors to give up the electronic rights to their submissions, and it's not clear to me what we get in return, aside from the 50% donation to the Forge.  Does the other 50% pay for your time organizing the project, doing layout, and getting it printed, then?  Do you get any print copies, or are you just sticking with electronic distribution?

If we're not giving up electronic rights, then the PDF product is really just the compilation of these articles, since they could potentially be made available elsewhere.  Am I reading that right?

2. Just so I get the math right: people who write longer articles have to pay more of the printing costs (since it's divided by page number), but then get more copies of the final product.

3. There're no general guidelines for what to sell the book for, so one person could sell them at cost ($2, say) and another for $5 or $10.  This seems potentially confusing (especially to people buying the book), but I guess it might work.

4. Is the book going to be published by Ronin Arts, effectively?  I'm just wondering from a marketing standpoint (since you've built a nice reputation for yourself).  Will it say that on the cover?

All in all, it sounds like a neat thing to try.  I'm going to be out of the country all next year, though, so I might have to find people to distribute the books for me.  Maybe a few contributors could band together to sell through RPGmall and/or Key20's new distribution system.

[philreed]

1. It sounds like you're asking contributors to give up the electronic rights to their submissions, and it's not clear to me what we get in return, aside from the 50% donation to the Forge.  Does the other 50% pay for your time organizing the project, doing layout, and getting it printed, then?  Do you get any print copies, or are you just sticking with electronic distribution?

Good point. Not what I intended. I just want to be able to keep the PDF available. There's no reason others couldn't release their material as PDFs.

And yes, the other 50% is for my time invested in this. The only print copies I'll have are 5 or so skimmed off the top for my collection.

And what people get in return is advertising. I'm going to try and get some contributions from people "big" names so that we can have a draw. Mentioning your website address in your article or game is, in my opinion, a must.

If we're not giving up electronic rights, then the PDF product is really just the compilation of these articles, since they could potentially be made available elsewhere.  Am I reading that right?

You are correct.

2. Just so I get the math right: people who write longer articles have to pay more of the printing costs (since it's divided by page number), but then get more copies of the final product.

Right. Those who have longer articles/games pay more but have more copies to sell.

3. There're no general guidelines for what to sell the book for, so one person could sell them at cost ($2, say) and another for $5 or $10.  This seems potentially confusing (especially to people buying the book), but I guess it might work.

I had planned to list a retail price on the cover. (Which will be by Christopher Shy.) I was thinking $15 but figured the final price would be determined after we see just how big the product is.

4. Is the book going to be published by Ronin Arts, effectively?  I'm just wondering from a marketing standpoint (since you've built a nice reputation for yourself).  Will it say that on the cover?

I'm trying to decide what to do here. Maybe "Collected by Ronin Arts" or something. Any ideas?

[Jonathan Walton]

Maybe "Collected by Ronin Arts" or something. Any ideas?

That (or something like it) sounds fine to me.

One more question: if contributors also submit their own artwork, I assume that it'll just get tacked on when determining cost and copies, right?  Each page of art (or 2 half page pieces, 4 quarter pagers, etc.) would count as a page of material, then?

[philreed]

Maybe "Collected by Ronin Arts" or something. Any ideas?

That (or something like it) sounds fine to me.

One more question: if contributors also submit their own artwork, I assume that it'll just get tacked on when determining cost and copies, right?  Each page of art (or 2 half page pieces, 4 quarter pagers, etc.) would count as a page of material, then?

Exactly.

[Eero Tuovinen]

Being that the compilation would include very different kinds of material, what style would the cover be? Are we talking about the cutefunnyawww halloween style dominant in American entertainment? I like the idea, but the game I'm thinking for this would fall apart faster than an Afgan government in a humorous context. The same question applies of course to the back cover as well. I'm essentially asking if you're planning horror or "horror". An added point is that I doubt how well a book with cutesy vampires and witches in the cover would sell in Finland...

Another question is the exact type of material. If I'm participating, my game will be an eight-hour larp/tabletop hybrid for fifteen players based on a Lovecraft story. Do you have problems with
- larp connection
- scenario-based design instead of an open-ended game
- a design context more suitable for convention play, with heavy GM preparation and a minimum of ten players
- a heavy intertextual relationship with Lovecraft?

[philreed]

Being that the compilation would include very different kinds of material, what style would the cover be? Are we talking about the cutefunnyawww halloween style dominant in American entertainment? I like the idea, but the game I'm thinking for this would fall apart faster than an Afgan government in a humorous context. The same question applies of course to the back cover as well. I'm essentially asking if you're planning horror or "horror". An added point is that I doubt how well a book with cutesy vampires and witches in the cover would sell in Finland...

Not cute, that's for sure. Check Christopher's art at www.studioronin.com for an idea of the cover. In fact, I'd be happiest if cute was left at the door and not allowed inside.

Another question is the exact type of material. If I'm participating, my game will be an eight-hour larp/tabletop hybrid for fifteen players based on a Lovecraft story. Do you have problems with
- larp connection
- scenario-based design instead of an open-ended game
- a design context more suitable for convention play, with heavy GM preparation and a minimum of ten players
- a heavy intertextual relationship with Lovecraft?

Those all sound cool to me. I may even through in my "Vampires" game that's inspired by the Werewolf party game. The rule is: fun game.

[philreed]

Something I've been thinking is dumping the PDF release completely. I'd then just count myself (and my number of pages) in when it comes time to pay and split up the books.

[Jonathan Walton]

I'm in.

Just had to run my plan by Jason Blair first.  I'm going to take 10-20 pages to further develop the "Vespertine/Vesperteen" concept that is a semi-authorized sequel to his Little Fears.  I knocked some of the basic design out last year when I did a 24-hour Game version of the idea, and now it's time to flesh it out.

The game's about teenagers, sin, and how everyone you know is turning into a monster.  Great metaphor for growing up, I hope.  Phil is the perfect person to do layout work for this game, anyway, so BONUS!

Eero, I don't think you need to worry too much about cute little ghosts and witches.  Not that I mind them, especially, but I sincerely doubt that many of them will be in the book.  Chris Shy certainly isn't going to put them on the cover.

Phil, can you share a bit about what's making you lean away from PDF?  In my mind, anthologies seem ideal for the PDF market, because you can buy a dozen games, read over them, and then only print the ones you actually decide to play.

[philreed]

Primarily the paperwork. I've got enough to keep straight without adding another product that I send a % of sales off to somewhere else.

Also, it may make the anthology more valuable to people if it's only available in print.

Opinions?

[Eero Tuovinen]

I think that you should consider making the PDF. How about arranging it so that the participants themselves sell the PDF (with 50% going to Forge) if they want to? That way you yourself wouldn't necessarily have to, and the book would be available more widely. We (meaning the Forge) have all kinds of customers in strange places, and with this kind of sporadic distribution there's no guarantee that anyone can get the book.

Anyway, I'm in the book if you'll have me. The game is "The Temple", an 8-hour convention scenario based on the Lovecraft story. It was first played in Ropecon 2003, and the response was overwhelmingly positive. The mechanics are a keen edge of complete GM control over mundane coupled with player control over psychology - very rules light, but IMO completely nonarbitrary. I don't know how long the writeup will be, but I'll be including art from my court painter, the low grouse. I estimate about 12-14 pages plus a cover page.

That said, are we doing separate cover pages for the games? How about page size? I have to always ask the latter, I've no idea at all about how the american page sizes work.

[Jonathan Walton]

Eero, standard American page size is 8.5x11", but I imagine Phil's just going to want some kind of text or word processor file that he can layout himself.

On the PDF issue, I think it's going to be more difficult to sell 1000 print copies through our websites if we're selling PDFs too, since most of the website crowd is pretty comfortable with PDF products (which would be cheaper too).  Maybe we could release the game as a very cheap PDF ($2) starting in January, with all the profits going to the Forge (I don't know if that paperwork would be easier), or even release it for free once the print copies are mostly (say 90%) gone.

[philreed]

I like the idea of releasing it for free at a later date.

Size is 7" x 10". And while I would rather handle all of the layout I'll certainly entertain other options.

[xiombarg]

I'm tempted to submit Pretender but that's already going to be in the No Press RPG Anthology. Is submitting something that's already in another anthology going to be a problem?

(Also, I'd want to check with Luke regarding before doing such a thing, but...)

[ADGBoss]

Hmm I would love to participate.

I have one question though:

YOu say Horror Genre Only, but could I say set it in Space, but be a focused Horror in space kind of thing?

I am not saying it will be in Space I was just curious.


Thanks


Sean