The Solar System discussion

[Clinton R. Nixon]

So, I finally let the cat slip and posted the link to my working copy of the new TSOY rules. You can find them here:

http://www.anvilwerks.com/src/tsoy2/solar_system.html

I've been playing with these rules in my local game, and it's my understanding that at least one game with them happened over the 4th of July. So, please feel free to ask questions and discuss them here.

[dyjoots]

First off, I dig it.  I like the original system, and this seems to be streamlined without losing anything important.  I like that it has become more generic, and the Shin Qui character example made me laugh.  Since I'm starting a TSoY game soon, and just ordered a big pack of fudge dice (for use with Fate), I will probably be trying out the Solar System.


I did feel the explanation of harm and healing was rushed, and I'm not sure I understand, so I'm going to try to clarify for my sake.
Let's say the Harm boxes look like this:

Bruised [][][]
Bloodied[][][]
Broken[]

If I succeed on a roll in BDTP, let's say with 2 successes, it looks like this:

Bruised [][x][]
Bloodied[][][]
Broken[]

If I roll another +2 against the target, it looks like this:

Bruised [][x][x]
Bloodied[][][]
Broken[]

Right?

If I take three hits in BDTP, a +2, +2 and a +5, this is what my boxes look like:

Bruised [][x][x]
Bloodied[][x][]
Broken[]

However, I was able to win.  So now BDTP is over.  I think my boxes should look like this:

Bruised [x][x][x]
Bloodied[][][]
Broken[]

Did I get all that?


Now, to heal, someone rolls the appropriate ability, and I remove Xs equal to the the number of successes they roll.  What happens if they fail?  How long do I have to wait, and is there any natural recovery?

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Chris,

You've pretty much got it.

Now, to heal, someone rolls the appropriate ability, and I remove Xs equal to the the number of successes they roll.  What happens if they fail?  How long do I have to wait, and is there any natural recovery?

I should explain healing better. It works like the reverse of harm - roll some healing skill and you can remove a harm at the same level as your success level (or lower.) The harm re-settles.

So, if you have:
1 [x]
2 [x]
3 [x]
4 [x]
5 [ ]
6 [ ]

and someone rolls success level 2 to heal you, the harm at 2 is gone:
1 [x]
2 [ ]
3 [x]
4 [x]
5 [ ]
6 [ ]

and then everything re-settles:
1 [x]
2 [x]
3 [x]
4 [ ]
5 [ ]
6 [ ]

As for self-healing - maybe. I like the way the current version emphasizes NPC relationships.

[Paul Czege]

Hey Clinton,

Have you seen Jonathan Walton's http://www.fudgefactor.org/2001/12/01/babys_first_fudge_dice.html">Baby's First Fudge Dice?

Paul

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Hey Clinton,

Have you seen Jonathan Walton's http://www.fudgefactor.org/2001/12/01/babys_first_fudge_dice.html">Baby's First Fudge Dice?

Paul

Awesome! Thanks, Paul.

I'm thinking, to differeniate the game from some Fudge derivative, of calling them "shift dice," but that might be ridiculous.

[Bankuei]

Hi,

I really like the breakdown of perpendicular vs. parallel actions.  Plus the damage track idea also works neat for me.  Are you redoing the setting as well, or giving us something new with it?

Chris

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Hi,

I really like the breakdown of perpendicular vs. parallel actions.  Plus the damage track idea also works neat for me.  Are you redoing the setting as well, or giving us something new with it?

Chris

Chris,

I may add, but I won't substantially change anything. I will make more explicit the fundamental rules behind the design of the setting:

No gods.
No monsters.
Just people.

[dyjoots]

I should explain healing better. It works like the reverse of harm - roll some healing skill and you can remove a harm at the same level as your success level (or lower.) The harm re-settles.

So, if you have:
1 [x]
2 [x]
3 [x]
4 [x]
5 [ ]
6 [ ]

and someone rolls success level 2 to heal you, the harm at 2 is gone:
1 [x]
2 [ ]
3 [x]
4 [x]
5 [ ]
6 [ ]

and then everything re-settles:
1 [x]
2 [x]
3 [x]
4 [ ]
5 [ ]
6 [ ]

As for self-healing - maybe. I like the way the current version emphasizes NPC relationships.

Ok, I think I get it.  Is there a limit to how much healing someone can get?  I mean, if a surgeon heals my second box, and the Harm resettles, can he then roll again and heal more?  Or do I have to wait?

Also, it seems that this means that how well skilled you are at healing doesn't matter...  If you roll a +4 total, then you heal one box, and if you roll a +1 total, you heal a box.  Since all of the damage shakes down to the lowest level, those two rolls have the same effect.

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Ok, I think I get it.  Is there a limit to how much healing someone can get?  I mean, if a surgeon heals my second box, and the Harm resettles, can he then roll again and heal more?  Or do I have to wait?

Once per scene. I think "per day" or whatever is BS, as that's so variable in games anyway.

Also, it seems that this means that how well skilled you are at healing doesn't matter...  If you roll a +4 total, then you heal one box, and if you roll a +1 total, you heal a box.  Since all of the damage shakes down to the lowest level, those two rolls have the same effect.

Now that is a good point. What I could do is not have damage re-settle. Then, when you heal something, you heal:

(a) the harm relating to your success level, if it exists, or
(b) the next harm below your success level, if it exists, or
(c) the next harm above your success level, if it exists

That seems way too complex, though. Maybe healing works like normal, but doesn't resettle until you do X. What's X? I dunno. Refresh a pool? Hmm.

[aplath]

Just to complicate the whole harm/heal thing a bit ...

Do I need diferent heal skills for diferent kinds of harm? For example, if someone harms my reputation it would require diferent measures than physical damage.

And ... how diferent kinds of harm would be treated together? Someone may start BDTP by insulting my reputation but then change goal and try to kill me with his sword. I might end up with diferent kinds of harm.

Do they all stack up together?

Or do I keep diferent tracks for physical, mental and social harm?

This actually might be interesting ... though perhaps complicated.

Andreas

[dyjoots]

Ok, I think I get it.  Is there a limit to how much healing someone can get?  I mean, if a surgeon heals my second box, and the Harm resettles, can he then roll again and heal more?  Or do I have to wait?

Once per scene. I think "per day" or whatever is BS, as that's so variable in games anyway.

Also, it seems that this means that how well skilled you are at healing doesn't matter...  If you roll a +4 total, then you heal one box, and if you roll a +1 total, you heal a box.  Since all of the damage shakes down to the lowest level, those two rolls have the same effect.

Now that is a good point. What I could do is not have damage re-settle. Then, when you heal something, you heal:

(a) the harm relating to your success level, if it exists, or
(b) the next harm below your success level, if it exists, or
(c) the next harm above your success level, if it exists

That seems way too complex, though. Maybe healing works like normal, but doesn't resettle until you do X. What's X? I dunno. Refresh a pool? Hmm.

It's definitely a tough issue.  The problems stems in part from the fact that damage shakes down.  For example, if I end up like this:

1 [x]
2 [x]
3 [x]
4 [x]
5 [ ]
6 [ ]

And I get pretty good healing (say, a +3).  Now I look like this:

1 [x]
2 [x]
3 [ ]
4 [x]
5 [ ]
6 [ ]

If damage doesn't shake down, then I stay like that until my next fight or until I am healed again.  But if damage does shake down, I look like this:

1 [x]
2 [x]
3 [x]
4 [ ]
5 [ ]
6 [ ]

Which is still the same as if I had only had my first box healed, and damage had shaken down.  I feel like it's problematic if the successes from a healing roll don't affect how much harm is healed.

[Christopher Weeks]

Why is never shaking down bad?  Demanding high rolls feeds the story mill as far as I can see.

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Why is never shaking down bad?  Demanding high rolls feeds the story mill as far as I can see.

That's the same conclusion I've come to, actually. Screw shaking down. It's complicated and doesn't make anything more interesting.

[Bankuei]

Hi Clinton,

Maybe you can use Shaking Down as a means for either natural healing or a "second wind" mechanic.  As a natural healing thing, you'd probably want it to be once a session or something not time related to in-game events("Oh, let me sleep another 43 minutes, then I'll be fully rested with 8 hours!").  

Or, you could use it as a Secret:  Spend X points from a Pool to Shakedown the damage.  The Pool would probably be related to the kind of damage taken or at least how the character deals with problems.

Chris

[Bill Cook]

A light bulb just turned on in my head. I've been trying to understand how you parry, and I'm now realizing that it's implied by taking the difference in success levels for perpendicular actions.

Innate abilities, on the other hand, feature when you lose a turn to change intention. (Kind of like Natural Defenses in BW:C.)

Re: Healing.

I think you've basically got it, Clinton.

* Don't shake down damage.
* Healing is pool specific.
* (Here's where my two cents come in ..) If there's a check in your SL's Harm Tracker box, erase it; otherwise, erase the next one down. (All pool respective to the healing, of course.)

[EDIT: cross-posted.] Shaking down as a Secret! That's pretty cool. Kind of like Sorcerer's Vitality.