Banthas in the Vineyard, preparing for play

[Vaxalon]

Our game group will be switching from vanilla Dogs to Banthas in the Vineyard in a few weeks, and I'd like to see what people have done, out there, to put a game into play, and find out what successes and failures they've had.

I have re-read the two Banthas threads on this forum, but the notes there are scattered and slightly incomplete.

Has anything been done since then?

[Vaxalon]

I just thought of something disturbingly missing from discussions of Dogs/Jedi games.

How would you handle starship combat?

Does it automatically go to the "Blasters and lightsabers" escalation level, and stay there?

[Danny_K]

I'm trying to get a game of this started on RPG.Net, and my thoughts so far are:
--Keep the hierarchy of sins the same, but change "town" to "world"
--Change "guns" to "lightsabers"
--the Force will remain largely undefined, as the explanation for amazing stunts

We are still talking about how to handle the Dark Side.

For starship combat, perhaps you could take a leaf from the Firefly discussions, and make up the starship as a "character" with its own traits, and which can take fallout.  Then starship combat is a matter of the PC starship-character vs. the NPC starship-character, with the PC's "helping" their starship in the fight.  Does that make any sense? 

[DanielT]

Use the Starship as Equipment. (With maybe some special List of which size makes which number of d10s for that piece of equipment) Let the Character being the "Captain" of the ship use the Ship as Equipment, the others using only their Stats (probably Acuity & Heart/Will) + all their related Traits. (Maybe "I'm trained in using heavy ship artillery 1d8", "I am an absolvent of Republic Starfleet Academy 2d8" or just "I've learned to trust in the force 1d6" and use it to let yourself be "directed" to hit your target)

Dice for ships based on size/armor/armament/etc. might be

Fighter 1d10 1d6 (d10 for Size/Agility, d6 for Weapon Systems)
Bomber 1d10 1d8 (d10 for Size/Agility, d8 for Weapon Systems)
Trader/Traveller 2d6 1d4 (d6 for Size/Agility, d4 for Weapon Systems)
Gunboat 2d10 3d6 (d10 for Size/Agility, d6 for Weapon Systems)
Cruiser 4d10 2d6 (d10 for Size/Agility, d6 for Weapon Systems)
And so on... okay, this way, you would come to some dice, when using the Deathstar, but... might be fun ;) )

[Vaxalon]

Given what I see on the screen, the pilot is the important thing when it comes to anything up to the size of the Millennium Falcon or the Ebon Hawk.

I'm going to use the standard crap/excellent/big rules for describing the ship as equipment, with an extra +1d4 if it's armed.

Anything from a cruiser up to the death star will be a setting, not a combatant.

The question is...  When Darth Govak, with his two wingmen, all in Sith interceptors, come after the PC's in their lightly armed courier... how do we resolve the battle?

[Vaxalon]

A thought occurred to me, that the stakes in Star Wars space battles are rarely "Do we kill him?" but more on the order of, "Do we escape into hyperspace before the tie fighters destroy us?" and "Do we destroy the Death Star before it blows up the Rebel Base?"

The stakes are usually not directly "i want to kill you, you want to kill me"

[dunlaing]

Does it automatically go to the "Blasters and lightsabers" escalation level, and stay there?

Dodging through asteroids is probably either d6 or d8.

Pulling up before you hit the shield that's STILL THERE! is d6.

Hiding by putting your ship up against their ship and floating away with the garbage is d4.

[Brendan]

The question is...  When Darth Govak, with his two wingmen, all in Sith interceptors, come after the PC's in their lightly armed courier... how do we resolve the battle?

Darth Govak gets his piloting traits, Blaster-and-Lightsaber dice, his Sith interceptor belonging dice, plus 2d6 and a trait for each of his wingmen.  Distribute fallout just like you would for a mob.

[CCW]

Does it automatically go to the "Blasters and lightsabers" escalation level, and stay there?

Something like:

"This is Imperial Star Destroyer 'Bobsyouruncle' stand down and prepare to be boarded" = just talking
"They're trying to escape into that asteroid field, follow them!" = physical
"Attempt to attach tractor beam." = weapons (?)
"Fire all weapons" = blasters / lightsabres

I agree with Brendon--just use the group combat rules as they exist--and with Fred: use the equipment rules or make the ship a setting.

This thread comes at an opportune moment for me as my group is starting a game of Banthas week after next.

I'm still somewhat concerned about how to build a town (perhaps because I'm not really that familiar with the Star Wars setting).  There could also be some issues because Star Wars operates mainly on an epic or mythic level, while Dogs is more focused on the personal and the community, don't you think?

[Danny_K]

I think it depends on what you really mean by "setting it in the Star Wars universe."  Does that mean trying to recapture the Saturday-Matinee feeling of the movies at their best?  I'm not sure Dogs is best suited for that. 

I've figured "Banthas in the Vineyard" would, structurally, play very much like classic "Dogs", only using lots and lots of gorgeous Star Wars color. 

[Transit]

Maybe the DITV Pride/Injustice/Sin progression could be rewritten using Yoda's "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering" speech?  The "what's wrong" is always some sort of imbalance in the force, and the players need to balance things out again?

[dunlaing]

Maybe the DITV Pride/Injustice/Sin progression could be rewritten using Yoda's "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering" speech?

or, to put it another way, we should try to put links to the old Banthas in the Vineyard threads in any new Banthas in the Vineyard threads.

[Transit]

or, to put it another way, we should try to put links to the old Banthas in the Vineyard threads in any new Banthas in the Vineyard threads.

That would be very helpful.  I always take the time to do an exhaustive search of all previous posts before I bring up anything that might have been posted before.  Sometimes it takes days of research before I can safely post anything to a new thread.  This time I neglected to search the boards all the way back to a post on November 18, 2004 where my idea had already been mentioned.  Sorry.  My bad.

[Danny_K]

Oh, the snark!  Oh, the humanity!

From the "alternate settings thread":

Banthas in the Vineyard: Jedi knights solving problems in the Outer Rim while resisting the influence of the Dark Side (http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=13410.0, http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=14311.0, http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=16956.0)

Both threads are worth reading or re-reading before postng.   Some of the Firefly threads are also quite helpful.

[TheHappyAnarchist]

Having just read that I think I am going to run a Banthas game too.
It seems that my local group is far more interested in Jedi than mormon/cowboy/gunslinger/judge/paladins. :(  Ah well, I like Jedi too. :D

One thing that I don't remember being addressed in those threads (except lightly with no conclusion) or in any dogs thread or the book is dual weilding.

What happens when someone uses two weapons, either two guns in Dogs or lightsabers in Banthas?