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Author Topic: Adapting TRoS Combat to Burning Wheel  (Read 13323 times)
Claymore
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« Reply #45 on: June 30, 2003, 09:46:14 PM »

The Riddle of Steel combat in Burning Wheel Combat Maneuvers

All notes refer to The Riddle of steel unless noted. To find out more about The Riddle of steel, or to purchase a copy, please go to: http://www.theriddleofsteel.net


Offensive Maneuvers

Bash: as written

Beat: As written

Bind and Strike: replace the second sentence with: on one exchange roll attack as normal. You may add your shield/parry defense bonus dice to your pool. If your attack is successful, you inflict no damage but your opponent loses one 1 for each success you achieved over him, good on the next exchange. For example, if you beat your opponent by 3 successes, he loses 3 dice from his pool on the next exchange.  if the defender succeeds, you may not use your shield/parry bonus dice during the next exchange*

*this does not appear in the original RoS rules and was added for my personal preference for use with BW (this could not be done as easily with RoS, as shields lower the defensive TN), feel free to delete it.

Cut: as written

Double Attack: pending until I completely review Two Fisted Fighting in BW (sorry).

Feint: as written (and a favorite ;-)

Feint and Thrust: as written.

Grapple: under review

Half Sword: change +3 against armours to "the weapon gains +1 VA to armours (if you decide to use VA). Ignore the TN reduction for half-Swording. Change shifting grip rules to: the user must pay 1 CP and make an Obstacle 2 reflexes test.

Hook: replace the fifth and sixth sentences with: If the attacker is successful, the defender must make a reflexes Obstacle test of 2, +1 for every success the attacker achieved over the defender.

Simultaneous Block/Strike: as written (another favorite ;-).

Short Stop: under review.

Thrust: Ignore the first two sentences.

Toss: Change ATN and DTN to Obstacle 2.

------
Hope these help as a start to converting roS maneuvers to BW. There are still a couple of holes I need to fill, anyone who is familar with both systems please feel free to chime in. I hope to have the defensive maneuvers up tomorrow.


-Claymore
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Luke
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« Reply #46 on: July 01, 2003, 06:19:02 AM »

The maneuver conversions look spiffy. The concept of "paying dice" is foreign to me, but I think it will work in the system just fine. It increases the difficulty of a maneuver (quite a bit, I might add). So test difficulty would be at the number of dice rolled. In theory, a character will roll less dice and thus have a harder time accomplishing his action. Which is how it should be.

I will post a pdf of the updated 4pg character sheet, it is designed to be used with the new artha rules. If you are using the Single Page CS let me know and I'll post that, too.

What I'm really curious about is the translation guidelines you used to get from ROS to BW characters. Any chance you could post those in case anyone wanted to follow your lead?

-L
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rafial
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« Reply #47 on: July 01, 2003, 11:59:50 AM »

Quote from: abzu
If you are using the Single Page CS let me know and I'll post that, too.


I have been using the Single Page CS, and the new artha rules, so I'm in favor of that.
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Claymore
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« Reply #48 on: July 01, 2003, 03:11:22 PM »

Quote from: abzu

I will post a pdf of the updated 4pg character sheet, it is designed to be used with the new artha rules. If you are using the Single Page CS let me know and I'll post that, too.

What I'm really curious about is the translation guidelines you used to get from ROS to BW characters. Any chance you could post those in case anyone wanted to follow your lead?

-L


I prefer the 1 pager, but I'm sure you will get as many opinions in my groups as there are character sheets.

As for translation guidelines, It's not terribly hard to do, I'll pop them up later tonight. This is the 4th time I've changed systems over the course of the campaign, first it was GURPS, then a homebrew similar to Runequest (2nd-3rd edition), then TRoS, now Burning Wheel. I'll comment on the differences on both systems and what you can do to make conversion easier later.

-Claymore
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Luke
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« Reply #49 on: July 01, 2003, 03:17:23 PM »

Quote
Double Attack: pending until I completely review Two Fisted Fighting in BW (sorry).

The Two-Fisted Fighting rules in BW describe using a Defensive weapon in your off hand. This allows knives, sword sheaths and table legs to act like shields for the wielder.  

For Double Attacks, we play that the Striker just dvides his skill dice between his two targets and then rolls as per normal (so long as he is ambidextrous or has two-fisted fighting training. Other characters do this at an obstacle penalty).

-L
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Claymore
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« Reply #50 on: July 01, 2003, 04:27:08 PM »

Quote from: abzu
Quote
Double Attack: pending until I completely review Two Fisted Fighting in BW (sorry).

The Two-Fisted Fighting rules in BW describe using a Defensive weapon in your off hand. This allows knives, sword sheaths and table legs to act like shields for the wielder.  

For Double Attacks, we play that the Striker just dvides his skill dice between his two targets and then rolls as per normal (so long as he is ambidextrous or has two-fisted fighting training. Other characters do this at an obstacle penalty).

-L


Double Attack: as written

:-)

No additional rules need to be worked then. In RoS, you can attack the same person with two attacks (you always have the option of splitting your pool against multiple foes, it's just a really bad idea).

-Claymore
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Durgil
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« Reply #51 on: July 01, 2003, 07:15:25 PM »

Quote from: Claymore
Double Attack: as written

:-)

No additional rules need to be worked then. In RoS, you can attack the same person with two attacks (you always have the option of splitting your pool against multiple foes, it's just a really bad idea).

-Claymore

Unless you have a really big dice pool to work with (i.e. very high reflex and weapon proficiency, and/or a lot of bonus dice from your spiritual attributes).
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Tony Hamilton

Claymore
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« Reply #52 on: July 01, 2003, 07:24:47 PM »

Quote from: Durgil
Quote from: Claymore
Double Attack: as written

:-)

No additional rules need to be worked then. In RoS, you can attack the same person with two attacks (you always have the option of splitting your pool against multiple foes, it's just a really bad idea).

-Claymore

Unless you have a really big dice pool to work with (i.e. very high reflex and weapon proficiency, and/or a lot of bonus dice from your spiritual attributes).


very true friend, very true ;-) BTW, did your copy of BW show up yet? Hope you are enjoying it!


-Claymore
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Luke
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« Reply #53 on: July 01, 2003, 10:33:49 PM »

Quote from: Claymore
I prefer the 1 pager, but I'm sure you will get as many opinions in my groups as there are character sheets.


http://www.burningwheel.org/pdf/ss_cs_artha.pdf

As promised, here's a modified single page character sheet with the new artha descriptors on it. This is a rough draft and may change before I formally post it to BW. But it looks good for now.
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Bracken
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Posts: 29


« Reply #54 on: July 03, 2003, 09:48:56 AM »

Wow, I own both games as well, you have merged the systems together very well! I might just have to start using these rules, I really prefer them to the scripting rules in the book. I could not find the defensive actions listed though. Have you posted them yet? I run every Sunday, I'd love to be able to show them to my group by them.

I just got Burning Wheel two weeks ago. I like it a lot, but when I showed it to my group they didn't like the way combat worked. I convinced them to play the demo adventure anyways, but let them make up their own characters. They still weren't crazy about it (combat), but loved making up characters. I am hoping (3 of them also play Riddle of Steel) with your new rules I can get them to give the game another try. Thanks!

Bracken
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Durgil
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Posts: 306


« Reply #55 on: July 03, 2003, 10:31:17 AM »

Quote from: Claymore
very true friend, very true ;-) BTW, did your copy of BW show up yet? Hope you are enjoying it!


-Claymore

It has and I am, thanks!
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Tony Hamilton

Claymore
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« Reply #56 on: July 03, 2003, 10:36:21 AM »

Quote from: Durgil
Quote from: Claymore
very true friend, very true ;-) BTW, did your copy of BW show up yet? Hope you are enjoying it!


-Claymore

It has and I am, thanks!


Ex..Cell...Ent...!

I expect a full report however on my RoS to BW conversion once you have reviewed BW's combat rules!!! :-)

-Claymore
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Claymore
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« Reply #57 on: July 03, 2003, 10:39:07 AM »

Quote from: Bracken
Wow, I own both games as well, you have merged the systems together very well! I might just have to start using these rules, I really prefer them to the scripting rules in the book. I could not find the defensive actions listed though. Have you posted them yet? I run every Sunday, I'd love to be able to show them to my group by them.

I just got Burning Wheel two weeks ago. I like it a lot, but when I showed it to my group they didn't like the way combat worked. I convinced them to play the demo adventure anyways, but let them make up their own characters. They still weren't crazy about it (combat), but loved making up characters. I am hoping (3 of them also play Riddle of Steel) with your new rules I can get them to give the game another try. Thanks!

Bracken


Thank you, thank you, I'm glad you like the conversion. I hope to have the defensive maneuvers up in a day or so, I need them by Friday for my own personal campaign, but I will try to get them in a postable format ASAP.

-Claymore
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Claymore
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« Reply #58 on: July 03, 2003, 07:37:41 PM »

The Riddle of Steel combat in Burning Wheel Combat Maneuvers

All notes refer to The Riddle of steel unless noted. To find out more about The Riddle of steel, or to purchase a copy, please go to: http://www.theriddleofsteel.net

Defensive Maneuvers

Block: All weapons block at a TN equal to your shade in the skill (usually 4+). Parry blades and shields add dice to your pool for defense only. These bonus dice refresh every exchange, therefore if you are attacked two exchanges in a row, your extra defensive dice refresh at the start of each exchange. The bonus dice your receive depend on the parrying/blocking weapon used. Consult the chart below:

Buckler      +1
Parrying Blade   +1
Target      +2
Heater/Great Shield   +3

Block Open and Strike: as written, but change “available at proficiency level 6” to “skill exponent 5”

Counter: as written
Note: The counter maneuver has two charts listed; one based on a d6, the other a d10. You can either use only the d6 chart (the half sword chart), use both and get a d10, or wait until I make an alternate chart ;-)

Expulsion: as written, but change “available at proficiency level 6” to “skill exponent 4”

Grapple: under review

Half Sword: as written, see offensive half sword.

Parry: As Block


A note about Evasion:
I’m also re-working the Evasion rules, which need more work than I originally thought. I’ll try to have them up by Saturday.

-Claymore
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Bracken
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Posts: 29


« Reply #59 on: July 03, 2003, 09:41:22 PM »

Thanks for getting the rules up so quick! Hopefully with these mechanics I can gets my players into the game!

Bracken
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