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In GNS Model Discussion

8/10/2001 jburneko: Gamer Psychology
WARNING: This thread is likely going to generate a LOT of flack. This is definitely not for the faint of heart. In a thread below Ron pointed out something to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jburneko, Ron Edwards, Logan, Uncle Dark, JohnMorrow.

8/9/2001 Cameron: Run-in with a Gamist Player
Clinton and I had a run-in with gamism last night that I thought I'd mention. We were getting together with a bunch of players that we had never gamed with…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Cameron, Ron Edwards, Doc Midnight, jburneko, contracycle, FilthySuperman, TrizzlWizzl, Mike Holmes, Clinton R. Nixon, xiombarg, Valamir, James Holloway.

8/7/2001 Jack Spencer Jr: Can the written rules make N G?
I had been thinking about this and am wondering how the GNS supporters will respond. It occured to me like this: Gamist is defined as playing the game to win,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jack Spencer Jr, Jared A. Sorensen, Ron Edwards.

8/6/2001 jburneko: More Questions For Narrativists
Hello Again, As I go around sharing the results of my research into Narrativism I find that I get two replies pretty universally and I was wondering what the Narrativists…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jburneko, Jack Spencer Jr, Uncle Dark, Ron Edwards, Blake Hutchins.

8/1/2001 Jack Spencer Jr: Gamist examples and redefinition
OK, Ron says Gamist is the least understood branch of the GNS model, an odd comment since it's the branch most people seem to think they understand completely. This probably…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jack Spencer Jr, Logan, jburneko, Valamir, Supplanter, Gordon C. Landis, Clinton R. Nixon, joshua neff.

7/31/2001 Uncle Dark: Defining Simulatonism
I was thinking while grocery shopping this morning... A working definition for simulationism as I understand it might be written like this: A simulationist wants a game where: a) Everything…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Uncle Dark, Ron Edwards, Valamir.

7/31/2001 Jack Spencer Jr: Hooking the players across the model
In the Set up time thread on this forum I've mentioned a judgement issue I've been having, for many reasons. Here's a major one. There have been techniques to hook…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jack Spencer Jr, joshua neff.

7/30/2001 Jack Spencer Jr: Set-up time
OK, trying to look at things from another angle. Taken to the extreme, in at least one direction anyway, gamist can require a lot of set-up time. Games such as…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jack Spencer Jr, Ron Edwards, Gordon C. Landis, Ian O'Rourke.

7/29/2001 Supplanter: Sources of Narrativism
Most narrativist games seem to draw their structural principles from movies and TV. The two most worked out theories of narrativist gaming, Berkman's and Edwards', specifically reference screenplay writing manuals.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Supplanter, joshua neff, Ron Edwards, Paul Czege, Jack Spencer Jr, Knight, hardcoremoose.

7/29/2001 Supplanter: The World and Other Stories
One of the basic distinctions in RPG theories is between world-oriented and story-oriented games. We come up with a set of design principles, decision modes and play procedures to support…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Supplanter, Ron Edwards.

7/28/2001 Levekius: The test...
I took M.J Young's test about 15 minutes ago. I know, I know. This test has been out there for a long time, but somehow I never had the time…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Levekius, Ron Edwards.

7/25/2001 tldenmark: GNS a sign of sophistication and maturity...
Eventually any new human endeavour that becomes established starts to spawn it's "philosophers". These people come in and try to explain things and put things in a box, and most…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: tldenmark, contracycle, Gordon C. Landis, Ron Edwards, Knight, Mike Holmes, A.Neill, greyorm, TrizzlWizzl, Jared A. Sorensen, Laurel.

7/24/2001 Jack Spencer Jr: Guess who's finally read the FAQ
I'll probably have to read it a few times before I post anything actually worthwhile, but anyway.... Part of the problems I've always had with any of the three-fold models…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jack Spencer Jr, Le Joueur, Ron Edwards, Epoch, Supplanter, GreatWolf, Valamir, Logan.

7/23/2001 Epoch: "Sophisticated" Styles
A while ago, I suggested that I'd try to characterize my own playing style in terms of the GNS. I don't know if there's interest, but, with Le Jouer (apologies,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Epoch, Ron Edwards, James Holloway, Mytholder.

7/17/2001 Valamir: Narrativism: What's beyond the sillyness
I've been poking around and adding to my collection of games owned and played those purported to be narrativist, and noticed a reoccuring theme...narrativist games seem to have a tendency…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, Ron Edwards, jburneko, John Wick, joshua neff, Mytholder, gentrification, Jared A. Sorensen, GreatWolf.

7/12/2001 jburneko: Another GNS Permutation
This is in all likelyhood just another permutation of GNS and doesn't add THAT much to the ideas already out there but I thought I would throw it on the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jburneko.

7/11/2001 Logan: GNS Doc Update
I e-mailed my draft of the updated faq to Ron. That means, hopefully, we get the update posted soon. Didn't expect to make quite so many changes. I think the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Logan.

7/5/2001 John Wick: My own GNS problems
I think my chief problem with GNS has something to do with apples and oranges. First, let me make sure I've got my definitions in order. Gamism is about competition…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Wick, james_west, Logan, Ron Edwards, Gordon C. Landis, Mytholder, JohnMorrow, Knight, Jared A. Sorensen, Jack Spencer Jr, Clinton R. Nixon.

7/5/2001 John Wick: G/N/S = 101
The title of this forum "G/N/S: Game Theory 101" is a little... well, let me start again. I really don't have any problem with it, the whole GNS thing. The…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Wick, Clinton R. Nixon, joshua neff, Ron Edwards, james_west, Gordon C. Landis, Mytholder, Ferry Bazelmans, Jack Spencer Jr.

7/4/2001 Gordon C. Landis: Simulation: another word
OK, I haven't sold myself on this, but if we must have another word for Simulation (I'm also not sold either way on that), I offer . . . Situation.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis, Dav.

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In GNS Model Discussion

8/14/2001 Philippe Tromeur: Is my game G, N or S ?
I'm sorry if I didn't get this G/N/S thing, but I'm wondering where is exactly the frontier between Narrativism and Gamism, especially concerning my little game "Wuthering Heights" Here is…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Philippe Tromeur, Mytholder, Jack Spencer Jr, Ron Edwards.

8/14/2001 John Wick: So, I gotta ask, is this "Simulationism?"
http://www.rpg.net/pf/read.php?f=5&i=108883&t=108883 Carpe Deum, John
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Wick, Gordon C. Landis, hardcoremoose, Ron Edwards, Epoch, Mytholder, Mike Holmes.

8/17/2001 morbus: Gamegrene.com Article on R/N/S
Entitled "The Great Divide". Read more here: http://www.gamegrene.com/gm/997796770.shtml A snippet: One of these sets of terms is my springboard for this article: the Gamist / Simulationist / Narrativist divide.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: morbus, kwill, Ron Edwards, Knight.

8/24/2001 Emily Care: Player Authorial Stance, N & S
This is a direct quote from the Simulationist Players section of the GNS FAQ: ]...the player is "inside" the character and ]has complete and utter authority ]over "my guy" and…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Emily Care, Gordon C. Landis, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes.

9/2/2001 Supplanter: Karma, Fortune, Hunh?
I've been puzzled by Ron's claim that GNS orientation is completely independent of resolution method, meaning "Jonathan Tweet's triad of Karma, Fortune and Drama." Specifically, it always seemed obvious to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Supplanter, Ron Edwards, Uncle Dark, Paul Czege.

9/7/2001 GB Steve: Actor without Immersion
Hi Guys! I'm geeting into GNS nitty gritty today. I looked at the FAQ. Here are the relevant sections: In Actor Stance, the player is actually playing his character in…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: GB Steve, Supplanter, Logan, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Le Joueur, kwill, jburneko, contracycle, Mytholder.

9/7/2001 Jared A. Sorensen: The Beeg Horseshoe Theory
Actually, that should probably read: MY Beeg Horseshoe Theory Here it is: Imagine a beeeg horseshoe. At one end of the U is Gamism. At the other end of the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jared A. Sorensen, Mike Holmes, Clinton R. Nixon, GB Steve, Mytholder, Jack Spencer Jr, Supplanter, Knight, Cameron, gentrification, Marco, ConfigSys.boy, Ron Edwards, Wart, jburneko.

9/10/2001 Logan: A call for new terminology
In the actor/immersion thread, Fang mentioned that terminology that causes confusion should be changed. I agree with Fang. The longer this discussion goes on, the more obvious it is to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Logan, kwill, Valamir, Supplanter, Le Joueur.

9/10/2001 Marco: Common Problems from GNS Incompatibility
I'm thinking this has been discussed elswhere but I just got into the GNS model and was discussing it with a friend and came up with this: When a group…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Marco, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards.

9/20/2001 Wart: Interesting Threefold Model Essay
There's an interesting article on the rgfa Threefold Model at http://home.earthlink.net/~bgleichman/Theory/Threefold/rgfa.htm which raises some interesting points, some of which might be applicable to the Forge GNS model. In particular, it…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Wart, Le Joueur, joshua neff, Gordon C. Landis, Knight, Ron Edwards, contracycle, Mike Holmes.

10/2/2001 Mike Holmes: Motivations and Behaviors of RPG Participants
As an extension to the discussion in Interesting Article... below, we'd like to look at a discussion of what sorts of motivations are found in people who play RPGs, and,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mike Holmes, Jared A. Sorensen, Gordon C. Landis, Paul Czege.

10/14/2001 Clinton R. Nixon: New essay by Ron
There's a new essay up by Ron on his newest thoughts on GNS, stances, actual play, and coherent game design. (This kind of replaces the FAQ - but it's not…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Clinton R. Nixon, joshua neff, Paul Czege, Epoch, contracycle, Ron Edwards, Valamir, Logan, Laurel, James Holloway, Mike Holmes, Blake Hutchins, Zak Arntson.

10/15/2001 Paul Czege: not by pre-planning
From Ron's spiffy new GNS essay: They also vary a great deal in terms of unpredictable "shifts" of events during play. The key to Narrativist Premises is that they…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Paul Czege, Mike Holmes, Valamir, Ron Edwards, Tor Erickson, Epoch, contracycle, Le Joueur.

10/15/2001 Valamir: GNS Article: Why the focus on one primary aspect of GNS?
Not a challenge, just a request for ellucidation. Ron, early in your article you go to great lengths to describe that the presence of a gamist element in what is…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes.

10/17/2001 Epoch: "Story," Actor stance, and My Guy-ism
Ron requested a different thread for the continuation of this discussion. Hey Mike S (Epoch), can't leave that "story" issue alone, huh? Like a loose tooth. My claim is that…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Epoch, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, jburneko, TrizzlWizzl.

10/18/2001 Manu: Task vs. Conflict and Scene vs. Action? (for Ron)
Hello Ron and all, You mentioned these in your essay; Could you please provide a few examples of these? I fail to see the nuance. Thanks.
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Manu, Mike Holmes, jburneko, Le Joueur, Matt, Ron Edwards.

10/18/2001 Manu: The 4 steps of action (for Ron)
Hey again, you mention these four steps in any action: Intention, Initiation, Completion and Effect; could you again provide some examples of what you were thinking about? Thank you -…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Manu, Ron Edwards, Laurel, Le Joueur.

10/19/2001 jburneko: Is GNS Good For GMs?
Hello All, Over the last few days TrzzlWzzl (sp?) has been expressing his distaste for the GNS model as it pertains to System Design and GMs. What you are seeing…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jburneko, Laurel, Ron Edwards, joshua neff, TrizzlWizzl, Marco.

10/22/2001 Clinton R. Nixon: Gamism and Premise
contracycle (Gareth, I believe?) and I have been having a pretty spirited discussion in the "New essay by Ron" thread about where Premise comes from in Gamist RPGs. Here's a…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Clinton R. Nixon, jburneko, Mike Holmes, Bankuei, Don Lag, Matt, contracycle, Marco, Ron Edwards, joshua neff, Valamir, kwill.

10/24/2001 Daredevil: Simulationism and Narrativism Under the Same Roof
I'll give a bit of a background about my concerns, so you can see where I'm coming from. I'm currently designing a couple of different games, trying hard to advance…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Daredevil, Ron Edwards, Epoch, Mike Holmes, Paul Czege, Valamir, Marco, Laurel.

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