A forum party game

[szilard]

SunsaTHINKINbitchiz!  Why can't joo just GAME like normal peeple?

Worship the AntiCHri5t,

bLAK3

Your call to "GAME" and your willingness to worship the antichrist (clearly due to your tactical desire for short-term power) are both evidence of a Gamist orientation, however your insistence upon the importance of gaming "like normal people" shows that you are relying upon Simulationist assumptions.

You are clearly incoherent. You should read some of the articles at the Forge.


Stuart

[Walt Freitag]

You are clearly incoherent. You should read some of the articles at the Forge.

And if he's really incoherent, he should write articles at the Forge!

- Walt

[Mystery User #1]

You are clearly incoherent. You should read some of the articles at the Forge.

And if he's really incoherent, he should write articles at the Forge!

Walt, thou art a true mandibulating bemooned montage of a mischief maker, musteth thou always so seeketh to stireth upeth grief amongst thy fellow Forgeites?

And whilest singing that horrendous song!  How doth it go again?

"Forge forge forge forge, forge forge forge forge. . . ."

ACK!  MEIN GOT!  Ist terribubble!

[Gordon C. Landis]

"Forge forge forge forge, forge forge forge forge. . . ."

I thought the Forge was above such typical-gamer juvenallia as a Monty Python reference?  Elitist - you keep using that word.  I do not think it means what you think it means!

[szilard]

"Forge forge forge forge, forge forge forge forge. . . ."

I thought the Forge was above such typical-gamer juvenallia as a Monty Python reference?  Elitist - you keep using that word.  I do not think it means what you think it means!

Ph33R MY 133t G4M3rZ V0K4B! - Typical Poster on the Forge


Stuart

[Mike Holmes]

Which reminds me. Nobody, Forge credentials or not is a complet gamer without one of these (mostly the fez):
http://www.villagehatshop.com/hats_pvp_online_gear.html

Mike

[Matt Wilson]

Which reminds me. Nobody, Forge credentials or not is a complet gamer without one of these (mostly the fez):
http://www.villagehatshop.com/hats_pvp_online_gear.html

Mike

I think you've just found this year's GenCon Forge booth uniform.

[Walt Freitag]

ACK! MEIN GOT! Ist terribubble!

Eh? What do the Teletubbies have to do with my conduct at the Forge?

I mean, besides my agreeing with Laa-laa that GNS overlooks a fundamental conflict between metagame agenda and emotional player investment in the character's happiness, which becomes particularly acute in Simulationism?

- Walt

[Mike Holmes]

Dude, as a father of a two-year old, I can tell you that it's not Laa-laa, it's just Lala.

And as to Lala's GNS predilections, we all know that he stance issue completely dissociates GNS from issues of player to character relationships in the non-metagame sense. To discuss this in terms of metagame agenda would be to assume that there were some transparency issues with Immersion in terms of creating story in a given genre.

Mike

[C. Edwards]

Dude! I love PVP Online!



p.s. my hat of The Forge know no limit!

[Walt Freitag]

Mike, as we often point out at the Forge, it's not really possible to address these issues without reference to a substantial instance of Actual Play. So, I ask you to consider the following example:

NARRATOR: It was time for Tubby Custard.

PLAYERS: Tubby custaaad! Tubby custaaad!

NARRATOR: Po, roll your agility pool.

PLAYER 1 (PO): Okay, I'm using all three of my dice. [rolls] 2 1 4... no successes.

NARRATOR: Po's Tubby Custard spilled all over the place.

PLAYER 1 (PO): Eh oh!

PLAYERS: Eh oh!

NARRATOR: Lala, roll your agility pool.

PLAYER 2 (LALA): I'm only rolling one die, so I can trade the others two for  a point to my nuu-nuu pool. [rolls] 4, a failure.

NARRATOR: Lala's Tubby Custard spilled all over the place.

PLAYER 2 (LALA): Eh oh!

PLAYERS: Eh oh!

NARRATOR: Dipsy, roll your agility pool.

PLAYER 3 (DIPSY): I can roll up to five dice, or choose to roll fewer. Hmm...

Now, Dipsy's player faces a difficult choice. On the one hand, the metagame agenda of fidelity within this particular high-concept sim game demands that Dipsy continue the trend established by Po and Lala, and also spill her custard. The mechanics give her that option (or at least, a recourse that results in a high probability of that occurrence, by rolling fewer dice). But Dipsy's player also knows that Dipsy does not want to spill her custard, and doing so will make Dipsy sad. This is not a stance issue, it's a conflict that exists entirely within the player, between serving the metagame agenda by spilling the custard, or creating an outcome more favorable to Dipsy by avoiding spilling the custard. It's also not an issue of drift. Player 3's desire to avoid spilling the custard does not, in this instance, arise from the challenge of adept custard-handling. (Such a player agenda clearly could be Gamist, but it equally clearly is not necessarily so, any more than a movie audience's desire to see the good guys win must be motivated by competition or challenge.) Instead, it arises from the player's emotional identification with the character's well-being. Simulationism is the mode most often associated with close player identification with the character... and yet the idea of prioritizing fidelity (whether to causality or to genre expectations of coutcome) above all else appears to demand clinical detachment on the player's part, which is rarely if ever observed in actual play. This is a hidden arrhythmia at the heart of Simulationism. It's not an effect of drift but rather one of its strongest causes. And it's often mistaken for (or for want of alternatives end up expressed as) Gamism.

- Walt

[Valamir]

You know I've been hanging out on the Forge too damn long when that actually almost makes sense...

[Walt Freitag]

[evil laugh reverberates through the chambers and corridors of the Forge]

- Walt

[Fabrice G.]

Now, Dipsy's player faces a difficult choice. On the one hand, the metagame agenda of fidelity within this particular high-concept sim game demands that Dipsy continue the trend established by Po and Lala, and also spill her custard. The mechanics give her that option (or at least, a recourse that results in a high probability of that occurrence, by rolling fewer dice). But Dipsy's player also knows that Dipsy does not want to spill her custard, and doing so will make Dipsy sad. This is not a stance issue, it's a conflict that exists entirely within the player, between serving the metagame agenda by spilling the custard, or creating an outcome more favorable to Dipsy by avoiding spilling the custard. It's also not an issue of drift. Player 3's desire to avoid spilling the custard does not, in this instance, arise from the challenge of adept custard-handling. (Such a player agenda clearly could be Gamist, but it equally clearly is not necessarily so, any more than a movie audience's desire to see the good guys win must be motivated by competition or challenge.) Instead, it arises from the player's emotional identification with the character's well-being. Simulationism is the mode most often associated with close player identification with the character... and yet the idea of prioritizing fidelity (whether to causality or to genre expectations of coutcome) above all else appears to demand clinical detachment on the player's part, which is rarely if ever observed in actual play. This is a hidden arrhythmia at the heart of Simulationism. It's not an effect of drift but rather one of its strongest causes. And it's often mistaken for (or for want of alternatives end up expressed as) Gamism.

See, when I told ya dat de forge is chritsal clar..... I was LYING !!!!! AHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fabrice.

ps: rule n°1 ov da Forge--allawys make a constructive post.

[Guess Who*]

Now, Dipsy's player faces a difficult choice. On the one hand, the metagame agenda of fidelity within this particular high-concept sim game demands that Dipsy continue the trend established by Po and Lala, and also spill her custard. The mechanics give her that option (or at least, a recourse that results in a high probability of that occurrence, by rolling fewer dice). But Dipsy's player also knows that Dipsy does not want to spill her custard, and doing so will make Dipsy sad. This is not a stance issue, it's a conflict that exists entirely within the player, between serving the metagame agenda by spilling the custard, or creating an outcome more favorable to Dipsy by avoiding spilling the custard. It's also not an issue of drift. Player 3's desire to avoid spilling the custard does not, in this instance, arise from the challenge of adept custard-handling. (Such a player agenda clearly could be Gamist, but it equally clearly is not necessarily so, any more than a movie audience's desire to see the good guys win must be motivated by competition or challenge.) Instead, it arises from the player's emotional identification with the character's well-being. Simulationism is the mode most often associated with close player identification with the character... and yet the idea of prioritizing fidelity (whether to causality or to genre expectations of coutcome) above all else appears to demand clinical detachment on the player's part, which is rarely if ever observed in actual play. This is a hidden arrhythmia at the heart of Simulationism. It's not an effect of drift but rather one of its strongest causes. And it's often mistaken for (or for want of alternatives end up expressed as) Gamism.

See, when I told ya dat de forge is chritsal clar..... I was LYING !!!!! AHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fabrice.

ps: rule n°1 ov da Forge--allawys make a constructive post.

The quantum entanglements of the GNS debates here at The Forge are a lot like stove top stuffing: dry when you first open the package, then essentially a lot of breadcrumbs spilled into flavored water, until you stir.  That's when it gets really interesting!

Take the above example, for instance, it is liberally dipped in The Forge's special chocolate sauce of metaphorical determinism of absolutist ideologues as rooted in The Forge's preconceptions about the status quo of metagame construct cost ananylsis.  The average Forgeite might as well assume that Dipsy, knowing that its player is going soon to set out on a journey to Farther India, would thus negate the die rolls by acting to make its player think. Something which wfreitag was obviously waving a nieve at with the above observation in a effort to shake the very foundations of The Forge's most basic preconceptions about the social interaction amongst trolls.  Er... Telewubbies.




*does NOT rhyme with coypu!