Taveruun

[Jake Norwood]

You'll have to move forward w/o Brian, who's gone for another 6 weeks.

Jake

[Darren Hill]

On a more general note, do we want to do several more threads? If we do, will that be disruptive to the forum? Is there another venue that we should consider?

Well, I for one don't mind multiple threads of this sort springing up. If you wander off somewhere else to chat about it, it might appear that nothing's happening, and the chance of people dropping in, seeing something that catches their interest and deciding to contribute, is of course greatly diminished.

[Mike Holmes]

You'll have to move forward w/o Brian, who's gone for another 6 weeks.

Six weeks? I thought it was just one, somehow. Oops. Well, I'm calling him out of the debate at this point, then. He still has West reserved, but otherwise, yes, that's too long to wait.

So, it seems that we have a consensus that there should be an editor, and I think that we're all on the same sheet of music as far as what he'd do. Tiebreaker, I like that. Anyhow, the big question is who.

I nominate Nick. He's a sociologist, and I think that counts for a lot, personally. What do you think?

Mike

[Nick the Nevermet]

I nominate Nick. He's a sociologist, and I think that counts for a lot, personally. What do you think?

I think you haven't met many sociologists ;)
(seriously, I make some jokes about my chosen profession, sometimes claiming expert knowledge, other times making fun of it... in all honesty its tangential at best.)

I was going to nominate Mike, actually.  Do anyone else have any opinions?  I refuse to believe it is in anyone's best interest for Mike and I to get into a humility competition.

In either case, I completely forgot to look at your map, Mike, while making my write up on the North.  However, the problems shouldn't be too hard to fix.  I just need to change the location of 1 city and the name of 1 river.

As far as my opinions on threads, I think that the discussion still belongs in this forum.  If things get more complex, or they get more blessed by Jake, then maybe it should go elsewhere.  But at the moment, we're just some fans talking about the setting in the forum.

If we stay here, though, we should start some other threads with specific ideas.  The first thread should be a 'big vision' thread, trying to get the biggest, most general picture of the state of Taveruun, being respectful of the core book, as well as Brian's input before he left.  We then get smaller and smaller in scale, bouncing back up when edits are necessary.

[Gary_Bingham]

First, How well do you see the East faring against Otamarluk?  You described the East as a very militaristic place, something I think most of us would have done as well.  However, I could see the East as being the most prepared for Otamarluk, or the most strained.  Which one do you think it is?]

I do see the East county as being a strong bulwark against the Seven Vows crusade. but without the combined armies of Mainlund I don't see any single nation standing against them. The pride of the Galadon people (I have decided to name the county after the river) prevents them from seeing this though.

I feel that we are building a beautiful sandcastle that the tide is going to wash away. I have my own ideas on how I want the counter-crusade to go, and whilst it is disasterous for Taveruun I don't want to see the country completely destroyed.  

And second, what is the Highlord of the East like?  Good, evil?  Effective, incompetent?  How ambitious is he?  Is he young or old?

Nick what do you make of the following?

The House of Pallori

Alfrex Pallori
The current Highlord of the Imperial East County is Alfrex Pallori. Like a true Galadon he exhibits all the key characteristics of the region he rules. He holds himself proud and exudes an air of calm, but it said that he has a fierce temper when riled to anger. He is thought of as a fair and just ruler by his subjects and is a devout follower of the Word of Xanar. The people of the county feel secure under his rule, and many dismiss the rumors of a counter-crusade with contempt saying Lord Pallori would sweep the Marmaluks aside should they threaten the Eastern Wall.

Inside the House of Pallori things are not as secure as his public image would imply. Though late into his fourth decade Alfrex Pallori still has not produced an heir and though he is repeatedly advised to take concubines to his bed he remain true to his wife and dismisses any claims that she is barren. His younger brother, Malcum, has four sons and many within the house have called for Alfrex to select one as his heir. Lord Pallori refuses to comply to this as he views his nephews as weaklings. It is said that he favours his only niece who is serving as a captain in the Eastguard Legion on the Eastern Wall.

Pallori’s choice of advisors is a cause for dissention within the court. His most trusted advisor is Rashid bin Shallah Al-Naguul, an exile from the court of the Suul’tahan in Marstanbuul. Rashid is a convert to the Word of Xanar though many see this as a convenience born of necessity rather than true devotion. Rashid interest in Astrology and Alchemy has set light to the rumours that he practises darker arts in the tower that Pallori has assigned for him in castle Longstone.

Malcum Pallori
Alfrex’s younger brother has been in his shadow since birth. He was not physically impressive or charismatic like Alfrex, but his talents lie with his intellect. He has served his brother as advisor and chancellor since he took his title and there was a time when the brother’s were close. Those days came to an end when Alfrex welcomed Rashid Al-Naguul into his consul. Malcum’s hatred of Rashid stems partly from jealousy, both political and intellectual, and also from a natural contempt for Marluks.

Malcum spent his formative years as a student at the Imperial College in Xanarium, and there he was recruited by a clandestine society known as the Most Honorable and Nebulous Guild of Diplomancy. This group of gifted individuals seeks to maintain order throughout the old empire through application of political power and sorcery. Malcum uses the skills granted to him by the Diplomancers Guild to help protect Taveruun, however he is at odds with the guilds modus operandi of remaining in the background as his ambitions grow. Malcum is being to covet his brother’s title and has begun to use his powers to build a power base amongst his supporters. His is sufficiently skilled in the art of diplomancy so that Alfrex is completely unaware of his actions.

Arthuran Pellori
The studious Arthuran is Malcum’s youngest son and has followed in his father’s footstep’s and traveled to The seat of the Xanarian Empire to learn statecraft at the Imperial College. Unknown to his father he has also become a Diplomancer, but unlike his father his intellect and natural charisma has found a outlet in the particular brand of sorcery taught by the guild.

Arthuran has been enrolled as a Holy Knight of the Shard in the Xanarium chapter of the order, at he behest of the Guild, and has risen swiftly through the ranks. Now as the Otamarluk threat grows he and many of his sword brothers have been recalled to Taveruun to aid in it’s defence should the Marmaluks attack. The Guild has directed him to keep a watchful eye on his father, and ensure that Malcum does not abuse his power or draw unwanted attention to the Guild.  

Rashid bin Shallah Al-Naguul
Rashid is exactly what he claims to be a exile from Otamarluk, though his devotion to the Word of Xanar is certainly not true. No one but Alfrex knows why Rashid has abandoned his homeland and religon. The truth is that Rashid worships no one but himself and his abilities as an assassin and spy. The story that Alfrex heard was that he became too ambitious in Marstanbuul and the Suul’tahan sent a nest of assassins to dispose of him. But Rashid was too clever and evaded all attempts to kill him. When the Suul’tahan dined the next morning he found a plate of full of thumbs in the place of his breakfast. Rashid has become Alfrex’s spymaster and counter assassin, and the Highlord has come to view Rashid as a true friend, much to the consternation of the court in Longstone.

[Mike Holmes]

I think you haven't met many sociologists ;)
(seriously, I make some jokes about my chosen profession, sometimes claiming expert knowledge, other times making fun of it... in all honesty its tangential at best.)

Well, I assumed from the quality of the data that you've produced that it was your sociology background that gave you the sorts of insights that made the entries realistic. Doesn't really matter where it comes from, you've got what it takes for the job, IMO.

I was going to nominate Mike, actually.  Do anyone else have any opinions?  I refuse to believe it is in anyone's best interest for Mike and I to get into a humility competition.

I"m not being humble, I thought you'd do a good job. I'd be a good choice as well, I think (hey, I'm here constantly). Heck, Gary's no slouch either. We're all probably well qualified for the job. We just need to pick somehow.

Gary, you want to call it?

In either case, I completely forgot to look at your map, Mike, while making my write up on the North.  However, the problems shouldn't be too hard to fix.  I just need to change the location of 1 city and the name of 1 river.

So, you're saying that we should go with it? It was just scribbled up on the spur of the moment. I was thinking that maybe we should blow it up so that we can see better where things are. OTOH, maybe not. My little map probably would serve our purposes in the short run.

The biggest problem with it in terms of your material, Nick, is that you talk about all sorts of influences from Helena. And on my map, they don't even border. In fact, given that the North is mountainous, I don't see them sending all that muuch trade through it, unless to get to Ix or the inland sea. OTOH, they are close, and it could just be a matter of interperetation.

As far as my opinions on threads, I think that the discussion still belongs in this forum.  If things get more complex, or they get more blessed by Jake, then maybe it should go elsewhere.  But at the moment, we're just some fans talking about the setting in the forum.

Cool. Sounds good to me.

If we stay here, though, we should start some other threads with specific ideas.  The first thread should be a 'big vision' thread, trying to get the biggest, most general picture of the state of Taveruun, being respectful of the core book, as well as Brian's input before he left.  We then get smaller and smaller in scale, bouncing back up when edits are necessary.

Sounds like a plan. Wanna start that 'big view' one up with some observations?


Gary, more cool stuff. Question. How did the East Wall get built? It seems to be on par with the great wall of china. Probably not nearly as long, but on the same scale of magnitude. And it's amazing what it took to build that thing. How did a feudal society accomplish it? Was there any magic involved? Where does it stand in relation to the river, and the river valley.

Speaking of which, what's the political control of the river look like? Interestingly, while small rivers often form borders, big ones do not in RL. This is because they, and the land on both sides are too valuable to share. Here we have a case where a big river is the border. What's travel on it like, and control of the banks like?

Is Diplomancy something you just made up, or does it reference something I'm forgetting? You also mention that Rashid is potentially a Sorcerer. This is fine if it's about all the Sorcerers you intend to add. Rarity seems to be the normal assumption in TROS, and I don't think we want to add too many. It's especially important to leave room for GMs to add their own when neccessary. It is cool, however, to list any that would be well-known, and/or suspected by the populace of Sorcery.

I think that we ought to keep out of doing future timelining. I mean, sure, you can talk about plans of leaders, and their planning times. But let's not get into "In the fifth month of the following year, Ottamarluk comes crashing across the border starting the war." These sorts of events have to reside in each GM's hands solidly. Otherwise, you risk things becomming railroady metaplot.

On another note, how much should we mess with nations outside of Taveruun. That is, it's important to note relations, but one can just embelish on book facts about that. I did, however, create one monastic order that's based in Cyrinthmier. And we all have touched a bit over the border. Thoughts about limiting this, or where to draw a line on it? We could just be expansive, and not worry about it, creating anything so long as it has some relationship to Taveruun.

Mike

[Nick the Nevermet]

So, you're saying that we should go with it? It was just scribbled up on the spur of the moment. I was thinking that maybe we should blow it up so that we can see better where things are. OTOH, maybe not. My little map probably would serve our purposes in the short run.

The biggest problem with it in terms of your material, Nick, is that you talk about all sorts of influences from Helena. And on my map, they don't even border. In fact, given that the North is mountainous, I don't see them sending all that muuch trade through it, unless to get to Ix or the inland sea. OTOH, they are close, and it could just be a matter of interperetation.

On the issue of your little map, I think it is worthwhile to keep it little at the moment.  We get general information, but there's no hope for getting tiny detail.  That's ideal at the moment.

As for the Helena stuff... point taken.  The Helena influences can easily be toned down a bit (and shifted into the northwest province).

...Also, looking at the map again, I may have made an error: why would there be important trade passes through the mountains, when next door, Helena has a wide coastal plane?  Not a horrible problem, but some more fine-tuning (more explanation, shifted emphasis) is in order.

If we stay here, though, we should start some other threads with specific ideas.  The first thread should be a 'big vision' thread, trying to get the biggest, most general picture of the state of Taveruun, being respectful of the core book, as well as Brian's input before he left.  We then get smaller and smaller in scale, bouncing back up when edits are necessary.

Sounds like a plan. Wanna start that 'big view' one up with some observations?

oh, sure, twist my arm, why don't you?
*grin*

I think that we ought to keep out of doing future timelining. I mean, sure, you can talk about plans of leaders, and their planning times. But let's not get into "In the fifth month of the following year, Ottamarluk comes crashing across the border starting the war." These sorts of events have to reside in each GM's hands solidly. Otherwise, you risk things becomming railroady metaplot.

I agree.  Regardless of whether metaplots are good or bad, the Weyrth setting doesn't have one right now.  My position is that we offer people a web of meanings and influences and let the reader decide what gets woven next.  If we leave it as 'It Is Coming,' then we can have a lot of fun with the uncertainty of everything.

On another note, how much should we mess with nations outside of Taveruun. That is, it's important to note relations, but one can just embelish on book facts about that. I did, however, create one monastic order that's based in Cyrinthmier. And we all have touched a bit over the border. Thoughts about limiting this, or where to draw a line on it? We could just be expansive, and not worry about it, creating anything so long as it has some relationship to Taveruun.

Eh... at this point in time, I think it is something to be mindful of, but with no hard rules.  It is a tricky one, I agree, but I'm not sure how much of a good answer can get written up right now.

[Mike Holmes]

On the issue of your little map, I think it is worthwhile to keep it little at the moment.  We get general information, but there's no hope for getting tiny detail.  That's ideal at the moment.

I buy that.

As for the Helena stuff... point taken.  The Helena influences can easily be toned down a bit (and shifted into the northwest province).

Neat. OTOH, again it can be done by slanting the NW provinces description. You know, "Wheras Helena has some influences in North, NW is totally Helenic..." That sort of rhetoric.

...Also, looking at the map again, I may have made an error: why would there be important trade passes through the mountains, when next door, Helena has a wide coastal plane?  Not a horrible problem, but some more fine-tuning (more explanation, shifted emphasis) is in order.

Because the mountains have to be crossed at some point. The book says the Imperial road goes through some pass up there, IIRC. Sounds good to me.

Eh... at this point in time, I think it is something to be mindful of, but with no hard rules.  It is a tricky one, I agree, but I'm not sure how much of a good answer can get written up right now.

Play by ear it is.

Mike

[Gary_Bingham]

I"m not being humble, I thought you'd do a good job. I'd be a good choice as well, I think (hey, I'm here constantly). Heck, Gary's no slouch either. We're all probably well qualified for the job. We just need to pick somehow.

Gary, you want to call it?

Not really :) but for the sake of progress, Mike you are by far the more prolific member of our little group in terms of posts. I say that you get the editors spot. No offense Nick.

My little map probably would serve our purposes in the short run.

Agreed

The biggest problem with it in terms of your material, Nick, is that you talk about all sorts of influences from Helena. And on my map, they don't even border. In fact, given that the North is mountainous, I don't see them sending all that muuch trade through it, unless to get to Ix or the inland sea. OTOH, they are close, and it could just be a matter of interperetation.

Most trade would come into the Imperial West County via ship or along a coastal trade route. Of course there may be smuggler's who would use secret routes through the mountains to avoid paying taxes

Gary, more cool stuff. Question. How did the East Wall get built? It seems to be on par with the great wall of china. Probably not nearly as long, but on the same scale of magnitude. And it's amazing what it took to build that thing. How did a feudal society accomplish it? Was there any magic involved? Where does it stand in relation to the river, and the river valley.

Thanks Mike. I based the wall on Hadrian's Wall in Northern England rather than the Great Wall of China. The Roman's built the wall in AD 122 and I tend to associate the Old Xanarian Empire with the Roman Empire. The East Wall would be longer than Hadrian's Wall by a factor of 10 or slightly more (I calculate the border with Otamarluk to be approx.750 miles long) But given the size of the Old Xanarian Empire I do not feel that the scale of the wall stretches the imagination too much.

Speaking of which, what's the political control of the river look like? Interestingly, while small rivers often form borders, big ones do not in RL. This is because they, and the land on both sides are too valuable to share. Here we have a case where a big river is the border. What's travel on it like, and control of the banks like?

I picture the wall being some way back from the flood plain of the river for practical reasons. This leaves narrow strip of Galadon land populated perhaps by a native Taveruu people I have yet to detail. Note like Hadrian's wall the actual border may, at certain times, extend beyond the wall and river into the fertile lands on the eastern bank and when Otamarluk is in the ascendancy the wall may itself define the border. The river in terms of communication is for the Galadon province even more important than the Imperial road. Trade along the river to the Saphire Bay would be vitally important to the financial well being of the county.

Is Diplomancy something you just made up, or does it reference something I'm forgetting? You also mention that Rashid is potentially a Sorcerer. This is fine if it's about all the Sorcerers you intend to add. Rarity seems to be the normal assumption in TROS, and I don't think we want to add too many. It's especially important to leave room for GMs to add their own when neccessary. It is cool, however, to list any that would be well-known, and/or suspected by the populace of Sorcery.

No Diplomancy is purely my own play on words. I utterly agree that magic and magician's are rare. I see the Diplomancers as a small group of Gifted nobles, no more than one or two per country. They will form part of my own campaign and i wanted to introduce nothing more than a few story hooks. BTW I don't see Rashid as a sorcerer at all, merely that he is suspected of it. I will leave his exact methods up to each GM's interpretation

[Brian Leybourne]

Guys... I´m blown away. This is all excellent stuff, and for my favourite country too! I have not had a chance to read right through it (I´m in a dingy Bolivian internet cafe right now and it´s not cheap) but I look forward to jumping all over it when I get back home in 5 weeks.

Most certainly go on without me, that´s too long to wait - I agree. If someone wants to take East as well, then go ahead, but save it for me if possible, I guess.

Really stoked. This is fantastic stuff.

Brian.

[Nick the Nevermet]

Really stoked. This is fantastic stuff.

Glad you like it. :)
Have fun down yonder, BTW.



As for everybody else...

I should have a rewrite of Komas as well as a write-up for the Northwest by Tuesday.  I'll incorporate all relevant comments since my initial posting.

Absolutely no offense is taken by Mike being our fearless leader.

I'd comment about the wall stuff, but I'm sore & tired, so I'll wait till I'm a bit more with it.

[Morfedel]

Ok, noe i'm getting jealous and i'm going to have to build something too, hehe!

[Nick the Nevermet]

Ok, noe i'm getting jealous and i'm going to have to build something too, hehe!

Nobody has made any claims to the south-east at all.  It'd be an interesting place, I think: The province looks to be one big delta, and it borders Svastara in all its quasi-India goodness. :)

[Morfedel]

Let me scratch me noggin and think about it. That also means I am gonna have to read the rest of this thread more carefully.

Bah!

Bah, I say!

Bah!

----

Dont mind me. i'm just strange, and this is a stranger day than most. :)

[Morfedel]

Ok, i'm reading it, i'm reading it....

I'll claim that area and give it some thought.