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In GNS Model Discussion

7/23/2001 Epoch: "Sophisticated" Styles
A while ago, I suggested that I'd try to characterize my own playing style in terms of the GNS. I don't know if there's interest, but, with Le Jouer (apologies,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Epoch, Ron Edwards, James Holloway, Mytholder.

7/17/2001 Valamir: Narrativism: What's beyond the sillyness
I've been poking around and adding to my collection of games owned and played those purported to be narrativist, and noticed a reoccuring theme...narrativist games seem to have a tendency…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, Ron Edwards, jburneko, John Wick, joshua neff, Mytholder, gentrification, Jared A. Sorensen, GreatWolf.

7/12/2001 jburneko: Another GNS Permutation
This is in all likelyhood just another permutation of GNS and doesn't add THAT much to the ideas already out there but I thought I would throw it on the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jburneko.

7/11/2001 Logan: GNS Doc Update
I e-mailed my draft of the updated faq to Ron. That means, hopefully, we get the update posted soon. Didn't expect to make quite so many changes. I think the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Logan.

7/5/2001 John Wick: My own GNS problems
I think my chief problem with GNS has something to do with apples and oranges. First, let me make sure I've got my definitions in order. Gamism is about competition…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Wick, james_west, Logan, Ron Edwards, Gordon C. Landis, Mytholder, JohnMorrow, Knight, Jared A. Sorensen, Jack Spencer Jr, Clinton R. Nixon.

7/5/2001 John Wick: G/N/S = 101
The title of this forum "G/N/S: Game Theory 101" is a little... well, let me start again. I really don't have any problem with it, the whole GNS thing. The…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Wick, Clinton R. Nixon, joshua neff, Ron Edwards, james_west, Gordon C. Landis, Mytholder, Ferry Bazelmans, Jack Spencer Jr.

7/4/2001 Gordon C. Landis: Simulation: another word
OK, I haven't sold myself on this, but if we must have another word for Simulation (I'm also not sold either way on that), I offer . . . Situation.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis, Dav.

7/3/2001 Logan: At the Center of the Triangle
In the Clarifying GNS thread, Pyske (aka Eric) made some good comments about the faq. One particular point got lost in the shuffle. I'll quote him here. System does…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Logan, Ron Edwards, jburneko, Le Joueur, Mytholder, Damocles.

7/2/2001 Valamir: Simulation: the problem is with the word
Well, I just found a few really meaty and useful threads over in Actual Play. I still wonder how many more meaty threads we'd have if everyone wasn't so obsessed…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, Gordon C. Landis, JohnMorrow, Logan, Paul Czege, Dav, Mytholder, Supplanter.

6/28/2001 Valamir: a Radical Notion
I know I'm not the first to come up with this idea, but let me be the first to start a thread on it. GNS: Chuck it. Chuck the whole…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, Gordon C. Landis, Paul Czege, Supplanter, Logan, Mytholder, Le Joueur, greyorm, JohnMorrow.

6/25/2001 Jared A. Sorensen: Carpentry, film criticism and game design
Hi! It's nice to see that the FAQ is up and people are talking...but well, there seems to be three types of people when it comes to this model. There…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jared A. Sorensen, Knight, greyorm, GreatWolf.

6/23/2001 Pyske: GNS analysis of RPG stigmas
This thread is inspired by the comments about the placement of "railroading" in the FAQ. In general, it is usually agreed that in a group activity, valuing one's own enjoyment…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Pyske, Knight, Mytholder, greyorm.

6/18/2001 Epoch: Style Mixing
Sorry, but a bit of opening preamble to get you to where I am, here. I'm a proponent of non-pure-style gaming -- I think that the best gaming experiences come…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Epoch, jburneko, Gordon C. Landis, greyorm, Valamir, Ron Edwards.

6/18/2001 Logan: Clarifying GNS for the re-write
I'm rather concerned that some primary aspects of the presentation have been misunderstood by many who have read it. Since I will be rewriting the doc on Jun 21, I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Logan, Mytholder, jburneko, greyorm, james_west, Epoch, Gordon C. Landis, Supplanter, Paul Czege, Ron Edwards, Blake Hutchins, Mike Holmes, JohnMorrow, Pyske, Clinton R. Nixon, Damocles, Forum Admin.

6/17/2001 Supplanter: Toward a Sense, If Not a Theory, of Simulationism
Taking off from some p-mail I got this morning... The question is how to characterize the goals of simulationist play and not just its taboos. Simulation is "Let's Pretend" in…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Supplanter, Mytholder, greyorm, Epoch, james_west, Justin Bacon, JohnMorrow, Knight.

6/17/2001 Mytholder: More FAQ comments (long and bloody)
Ok...It's 2.18am as I begin this, I got four hours sleep last night and have spent half the day playing an l5r tournament and the rest of the time at…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mytholder, Supplanter, Logan, Valamir, greyorm.

6/14/2001 Clinton R. Nixon: The FAQ is up
There'll be links on the front page and in the forum soon, but until then: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/faq/ Enjoy. And thank Logan and Ron--they've worked hard on this one.
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Clinton R. Nixon, Mytholder, Epoch, Blake Hutchins, Logan, Valamir, james_west, greyorm, Ron Edwards, Jared A. Sorensen, Gordon C. Landis, joshua neff, Levekius, GreatWolf, Mike Holmes, Supplanter.

6/10/2001 Supplanter: Where Did Dramatism Go?
Awhile ago Ron made clear to me that "Narrativism is not Dramatism" - that is to say, it is distinct from the type of game Kim and Berkman called Dramatism…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Supplanter, Mytholder, jburneko, greyorm, Valamir, Logan, Ron Edwards.

6/10/2001 Torrent: 6 W's in Game Write up
I offer the following as an observation. Feel free to debate and tear it apart if need be. It came to me in the blank time driving back and forth…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Torrent.

6/7/2001 greyorm: Using the Threefold in Design
Well, the title more or less says it all. Basically, how do YOU use the Threefold in design? How does it help you design your game? How do you respond…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: greyorm, Ron Edwards, Jared A. Sorensen, GreatWolf, Mytholder, Mike Holmes, Zak Arntson.

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Subsequent Topics
In GNS Model Discussion

7/25/2001 tldenmark: GNS a sign of sophistication and maturity...
Eventually any new human endeavour that becomes established starts to spawn it's "philosophers". These people come in and try to explain things and put things in a box, and most…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: tldenmark, contracycle, Gordon C. Landis, Ron Edwards, Knight, Mike Holmes, A.Neill, greyorm, TrizzlWizzl, Jared A. Sorensen, Laurel.

7/28/2001 Levekius: The test...
I took M.J Young's test about 15 minutes ago. I know, I know. This test has been out there for a long time, but somehow I never had the time…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Levekius, Ron Edwards.

7/29/2001 Supplanter: The World and Other Stories
One of the basic distinctions in RPG theories is between world-oriented and story-oriented games. We come up with a set of design principles, decision modes and play procedures to support…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Supplanter, Ron Edwards.

7/29/2001 Supplanter: Sources of Narrativism
Most narrativist games seem to draw their structural principles from movies and TV. The two most worked out theories of narrativist gaming, Berkman's and Edwards', specifically reference screenplay writing manuals.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Supplanter, joshua neff, Ron Edwards, Paul Czege, Jack Spencer Jr, Knight, hardcoremoose.

7/30/2001 Jack Spencer Jr: Set-up time
OK, trying to look at things from another angle. Taken to the extreme, in at least one direction anyway, gamist can require a lot of set-up time. Games such as…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jack Spencer Jr, Ron Edwards, Gordon C. Landis, Ian O'Rourke.

7/31/2001 Jack Spencer Jr: Hooking the players across the model
In the Set up time thread on this forum I've mentioned a judgement issue I've been having, for many reasons. Here's a major one. There have been techniques to hook…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jack Spencer Jr, joshua neff.

7/31/2001 Uncle Dark: Defining Simulatonism
I was thinking while grocery shopping this morning... A working definition for simulationism as I understand it might be written like this: A simulationist wants a game where: a) Everything…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Uncle Dark, Ron Edwards, Valamir.

8/1/2001 Jack Spencer Jr: Gamist examples and redefinition
OK, Ron says Gamist is the least understood branch of the GNS model, an odd comment since it's the branch most people seem to think they understand completely. This probably…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jack Spencer Jr, Logan, jburneko, Valamir, Supplanter, Gordon C. Landis, Clinton R. Nixon, joshua neff.

8/6/2001 jburneko: More Questions For Narrativists
Hello Again, As I go around sharing the results of my research into Narrativism I find that I get two replies pretty universally and I was wondering what the Narrativists…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jburneko, Jack Spencer Jr, Uncle Dark, Ron Edwards, Blake Hutchins.

8/7/2001 Jack Spencer Jr: Can the written rules make N G?
I had been thinking about this and am wondering how the GNS supporters will respond. It occured to me like this: Gamist is defined as playing the game to win,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jack Spencer Jr, Jared A. Sorensen, Ron Edwards.

8/9/2001 Cameron: Run-in with a Gamist Player
Clinton and I had a run-in with gamism last night that I thought I'd mention. We were getting together with a bunch of players that we had never gamed with…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Cameron, Ron Edwards, Doc Midnight, jburneko, contracycle, FilthySuperman, TrizzlWizzl, Mike Holmes, Clinton R. Nixon, xiombarg, Valamir, James Holloway.

8/10/2001 jburneko: Gamer Psychology
WARNING: This thread is likely going to generate a LOT of flack. This is definitely not for the faint of heart. In a thread below Ron pointed out something to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jburneko, Ron Edwards, Logan, Uncle Dark, JohnMorrow.

8/12/2001 Jack Spencer Jr: Purpose vs goal?
This occured to me over in the RPG theory forum in the Techniques thread after the eläytyäists came up. That is the purpose of role-playing and how this may differ…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jack Spencer Jr, contracycle, Ron Edwards, joshua neff, jburneko, Knight, FilthySuperman.

8/14/2001 Philippe Tromeur: Is my game G, N or S ?
I'm sorry if I didn't get this G/N/S thing, but I'm wondering where is exactly the frontier between Narrativism and Gamism, especially concerning my little game "Wuthering Heights" Here is…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Philippe Tromeur, Mytholder, Jack Spencer Jr, Ron Edwards.

8/14/2001 John Wick: So, I gotta ask, is this "Simulationism?"
http://www.rpg.net/pf/read.php?f=5&i=108883&t=108883 Carpe Deum, John
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Wick, Gordon C. Landis, hardcoremoose, Ron Edwards, Epoch, Mytholder, Mike Holmes.

8/17/2001 morbus: Gamegrene.com Article on R/N/S
Entitled "The Great Divide". Read more here: http://www.gamegrene.com/gm/997796770.shtml A snippet: One of these sets of terms is my springboard for this article: the Gamist / Simulationist / Narrativist divide.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: morbus, kwill, Ron Edwards, Knight.

8/24/2001 Emily Care: Player Authorial Stance, N & S
This is a direct quote from the Simulationist Players section of the GNS FAQ: ]...the player is "inside" the character and ]has complete and utter authority ]over "my guy" and…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Emily Care, Gordon C. Landis, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes.

9/2/2001 Supplanter: Karma, Fortune, Hunh?
I've been puzzled by Ron's claim that GNS orientation is completely independent of resolution method, meaning "Jonathan Tweet's triad of Karma, Fortune and Drama." Specifically, it always seemed obvious to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Supplanter, Ron Edwards, Uncle Dark, Paul Czege.

9/7/2001 GB Steve: Actor without Immersion
Hi Guys! I'm geeting into GNS nitty gritty today. I looked at the FAQ. Here are the relevant sections: In Actor Stance, the player is actually playing his character in…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: GB Steve, Supplanter, Logan, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Le Joueur, kwill, jburneko, contracycle, Mytholder.

9/7/2001 Jared A. Sorensen: The Beeg Horseshoe Theory
Actually, that should probably read: MY Beeg Horseshoe Theory Here it is: Imagine a beeeg horseshoe. At one end of the U is Gamism. At the other end of the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jared A. Sorensen, Mike Holmes, Clinton R. Nixon, GB Steve, Mytholder, Jack Spencer Jr, Supplanter, Knight, Cameron, gentrification, Marco, ConfigSys.boy, Ron Edwards, Wart, jburneko.

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